Why do you guys keep insisting they got Pierce from tanking? It was the 10th pick. Would you have been happier if we simply pulled the trigger on the deal to move up and drafted Morris 8th instead?
Not in this year's draft. Next year, of course. Aren't we talking about potentially tanking for next year? But you also have to understand the power of a lottery pick--the power to keep it or trade it. You're the one in control of negotiations (and we have a pretty smart GM). I'm sure Morey could do more if he had a lottery pick to work with, rather than a 14th/23rd pick.
I like how you're COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that they kissed a lot of frogs before they lucked into a prince when they had finally drafted enough quality players in their rebuilding process to finally be on the upswing but still suck pretty bad. As for the 15th pick - Al Jefferson - they gambled on a high school player and it paid off. That option isn't available any longer. And finally, again, that's not a model I'd have any interest in emulating anyway. Who wants to strive for a one and done championship team? I want a potential dynasty!
What win-loss record would get one the 10 pick? I don't think .500 would cut it. I don't expect a 20 win season out of this team. Clocking in at 36 wins would do a good enough job to give Morey more move-up flexibility. Consider this year's trade of the 7 pick. Anyway it goes, even if all the world accepted your argument about Boston, what about the other 28 years of NBA champs and finalists? Exceptions to the rule are just that, exceptions. What about Morey's own words about attempting something unprecedented?
1. because they tanked for YEARS and Pierce was on the tail end of that. Winning 36 games is not exactly fighting for a championship. Do we need to discuss what I think tanking is? I don't think it's intentionally throwing games. I think it's going young to develop your young guys and improve your chances in the draft. In the year Paul Pierce was drafted, it just so happened that they had improved their chances in the draft for enough years that they finally won more games than the last. They still SUCKED. 2. Why do you keep pretending things work out that well every year? That your odds of getting a franchise player aren't higher the higher you pick? Remember the year a single game cost us Brandon Roy? And finally, while we MAY have been able to move from 14 to 10 - could we have moved from 14 to 8? or from 14 to 6? Because the higher our pick is, the easier it is to get even higher. The lower it is, the more difficult. And I believe Morey said Biyombo is who they actually wanted. Well, perhaps we could have moved up and gotten him if we had the 10th pick instead of the 14th.
The way I see it, if the Rockets were at 10 or 8 already, they would have a better chance to trade up and get someone they rated ahead of Morris.
What does them sucking at drafting have to do with us? Them kissing a lot of frogs doesn't mean we have to.
Right. Because superstars are not only available in every draft, but they're even available as late as 10 to 14 in every draft. And our management is so expert, they'll never manage to miss out on that superstar.
Apparently 43-39, since we had a deal in place to move up to 8, before backing out. Sure, let's look at some others. How did the Lakers get Kobe? Look, guys, I am just playing devil's advocate. I wanted to tank before, but reality hit me that apparently it doesn't take that much to trade into the mid lottery, and there apparently is plenty to be had around the mid lottery. Is it incredibly difficult to build this way? Sure. Is it still the exception to the rule? Probably. But I'm just saying, it's not impossible. Besides, I think you guys will be singing a different tune if Morris turns into Paul Pierce.
I share this feeling. Seems things are lining up to let this be the year. Young roster new coach. When Morey spoke, he admitted this is a tough roster for a new coach to start with. Rule #1 to successful tanking: don't admit you are doing it.
Only if he is teamed up with another all-star or two. Prior to the assembly of the big 3, Paul Pierce-led Celtics only got to the playoffs 4 times in his 9 years in the league (in the Leastern Conference no less)--and all 3 had Antoine Walker. Just a heads up.
Not to trade there. To own it outright. I argue it is easier to maneuver if you are in the top ten to start with. I want Morey to have the most to work with. For that to happen, I think he needs a pick in the top ten, to make it easier to trade even higher. I am tired of seeing both the Rockets and the Texans be just a few wins from drafting that franchise changing prospect. If Morris turns into Pierce, I'll be even more pissed they did not earn a top 10 pick in 2012 to lineup next to him. And this method is not probably the exception. It is the exception. Morey has stated so himself. Look at all past finals match ups in Wikipedia and look at the composition of each team's rosters. The evidence is clear.
1. I think this is a cop out. 2. Is it for certain? 3. We couldn't have gotten high enough to get Biyombo - and maybe we could have if we actually started with the 10th pick. The Lakers got Kobe because he refused to play in Charlotte. How's that been working out for players lately? Yi Jianlan tried it in Milwaukee. He played there anyway. Ricky Rubio tried it on Minnesota - he even played hardball and didn't come for two full years. He's still going to Minnesota. It appears the days of teams letting draft picks dictate where they are going to play are over. And seriously - that's your main thrust? "It's not impossible". Well, I'm going to stick with hoping for what we know is possible because it's been done many times.
You dont have to tank but you do have to start the young guys you draft. Not only to build their value for future moves but so you can build their games and also take more losses in the interim while they improve and you make your draft position better that way. Its not tanking. Its what Adleman wouldnt do. Which is develop young players for the Rockets so he can have another mediocre 43 win season and 14th pick in the draft. He could have just started a few young guys like Twill and Patrick Patterson and played them more. We might have lost a few more games but we also would have probably had the higher draft pick while sitll missing the playoffs anyways. Thats why you have to give Patrick Patterson, Donatus, and Marcus Major minutes this season. As much as you can give to them to develop them. Even if it comes with more losses. The goal is not the playoffs if you are rebuilding and have little chance of the playoffs. The goal is developing young talent and playoffs as a good surprise if that young talent develops better than you thought. Playoffs is the cherry on top for this type of team if your young players end up that good. Which makes them all more attractive. More minutes even without playoffs makes them all more attractive. Instead of unknowns like Patrick Patterson whose stock could be higher right now and Twill who is nonexistant. Its not tanking though. Its a process of sacrifice to a goal. More losses may come with inexperience.
On the bright side, if any front office can pull this off, it's ours. Speaking of exceptions, Morey is the exception, as in exceptional. Hopefully they can also use McHale to draw in some marquee free agents as well. Like I said earlier, this is probably gonna be a rough year. Optimistically, we find out what we can squeeze out of talented assets like Thabeet and TWill etc. By the time things start clicking, the season will have been lost. Hopefully we finally figure it out and finish strong, but with an abysmal record. Load up in the draft with our 4 picks or simply send them out in what would potentially be Moreys masterstroke trade (DHoward anyone?). Profit!!
Totally agree with this point. Morey doesn't need to do much, all he has to do is get rid of Kevin Martin and Luis Scola and get some decent picks in return. If he can't do that, then if he just got rid of them for a 2nd round pick, that would be better than the very likely 14th pick we're going to be seeing yet again next year. And don't tell me we are just going to try to move up, because that trick has lost its shine. What I think we should do is, get rid of Martin and Scola, let Hayes walk, play our young guys, and sign JR Smith. That team would be young and exciting, and we'd get a very good pick in 2012.
You need SOME veteran leadership to coach those young guys up though. KMac is just one man. Yeah I realize we will have assistants too but young players really respond to veterans. You need disciplined leaders like Chuck. Donatas idolizes Scola. Lowry is a role model for toughness. Martin probably isn't a leader but he is a championship piece. Im not so sure simply throwing the pups to the wolves is the best idea. Maybe its why so many bad teams stay horrible. Scola and Chuck prob wont be around for a championship run, but maybe they serve an immediate purpose in the eyes of the FO, and that is to instill their discipline and toughness on the rookies. Depends what kind of deal you can get for them I suppose.
sign JR Smith? get rid of our leaders? dude. thank freakin god you are not our GM. I do however kinda wish he would have given Adelman one more season. I think he could do a lot with our new pieces.
