I largely agree with the original poster. This thread also makes me realize that we should not give up on Yao. He might have to take off another whole season or almost the whole season, but if he can recover he is worth waiting for. No more attempts to rush back. I keep thinking of Bill Walton and how after he sat out for a couple of years he recovered quite a bit. Before, even when younger, when he kept coming back every year he kept getting hurt. I believe that our best chance is to keep taking more or less BPA and give the Yao Ming era one more try. Obviously next time is Yao's last try. If we somehow luck out and get a serviceable center we should take him if we don't have to give up too much. Look at Dallas, they kept building and amassing other talent and then Chandler came along to complete the picture. Though he was not the star he was vital.
Well, I don't want to "reach" for anyone. I don't want to trade up for a center, because it would cost an arm and leg. If Valanciunas falls to 14 because his contract situation then pick him up by all means. However, if we are going to trade up, I hope it is for Morris. Not because he is a very fine player, but because IMnotsoHO he will be a top 2-3 player in the entire draft, and would be an absolute steal at 10 or whatever. Also because he covers our second biggest positional need(SF) and number one biggest absolute need(elite shot creator). Can't find his lane agility anywhere. I don't think it matters too much, I am not arguing that he is going to be a great defender, just that he will be capable of playing SF. Remember who is our starting SF currently. It is extremely unlikely that he would be worse defensively than Budinger. Understandable. And I hope that is why he drops(probably not all the way to 14). He would be a solid 4, but an exceptional 3- which obviously I have no doubt he can play.
Cx- I don't know your definition of a superstar, but in some form, healthy or in the past, roy,pierce, and williams fit in that category. Roy healthy is one of the 15 best players in the game. Same goes for a younger pierce and deron. Now if your basis for not drafting a center is because there aren't many good prospects, I agree. The problem is an organization can keep talking themselves into that and then they try to sign or trade for the guy they could've drafted.
I didn't mean to knock Tyler, I haven't seen him play at all. If we end up with him his game will eventually speak for itself. But why do so many people endorse him if they haven't seen him play? What could they possibly know about him besides his physical attributes? The Griffin example was just extreme. But at #23 we don't need to swing for the fences on an unknown. Lots of good players could fall to that range that aren't necessarily centers.
Marcus Morris is a playa. I would move up a couple spots and give up 14 and an asset to get my mitts on him to play the SF for the next decade. He is Paul Pierce lite. He is all dat.
My basis for not drafting a center is because the prospects aren't good enough for us the pay the price to move up that high, ESPECIALLY when there is a sure-thing like Marcus Morris who is much more obtainable. It doesn't matter how I define superstar. Using your definition of it, I think Marcus will be one.
CXbby, You do realize that none of those players qualify as a "go-to player" in the clutch in the regular season nor the playoffs? Yes, the Rockets need a defensive Center (not PF) as well as a star go-to player. But at the #14 pick, you will only a high risk-high reward player will turn into that type of player. Any "surefire" player/prospect with that Modus operandi would be a top 5-10 pick. If anything that would lean towards drafting a euro big and hoping he pans out.
I'd agree with the OP post with one assumption, that the centers in question here are overrated by their draft position. I don't know if this is actually true. Normally I'd just go with draft reports. But it's pretty clear the Rockets front office scout better than your average draft guru on the net. If Morey thinks that, say, Kanter is a 1st tier guy at the same level of Irving or Williams, no reason to knock out need and star-potential with one pick. The problem is making Oden/Darko/Thabeet/Kandiman type of pick if we move up. Yeah, you definitely don't pass up a potential star to get a big. But if the draft resembles more of the 2002 draft(Yao vs Jay Williams), then you still go for the big man.
Sorry, I think you missed my point. When asking can someone play the 3, invariably that means can they guard the 3. The players I listed are some of the top defenders at the SF spot. Offensively, Morris will have zero problems. There is no way your average SF can handle him on the block, or on the perimeter for that matter. But if you are curious, I guarantee Carmelo and Pierce's 3/4 court sprint is slower as well. Also, another point in the OP you missed is no where am I talking about picking at 14. Morris will not be there. Nor are any legit center prospects. The entire premise is about trading up for them.
I think it is trickier than that. Is Kanter or Valanciunas worth a top 5 pick? Yes, I believe they are. However, they may not be worth trading up for, especially when there are better/cheaper/higher probability alternatives. Legit centers are such a rare commodity that even if its is 50/50 that they pan out, they may still be worth a top 5 pick. So if we actually had a top pick, I am not suggesting we reach for Morris. Maybe trade down though. I just think it is smarter to go for a higher probability star player(a need of ours too btw), and go for a more proven, albeit lesser center prospect outside the draft(Asik).
I expanded on that later, in that I say "overrated" in terms of comparing to other players. If Irving has a draft score of say a 9.2 and Kanter has a score of 9.0, then I see no problem going after Kanter. You're right that draft position itself is skewed towards centers. But there are centers in the past that have justified their position simply by being that good. The reason I can't say for certain whether we should move up for a center is because I don't know if these two guys are more like Bogut/Yao types, or Thabeet/Darko types. I do realize that they resemble the latter more. But that's from a fan perspective without the detailed data.
Here's some more support CX. This guy will be right there with Derrick Williams as the best small forwards to come out of this draft. Anybody that thinks that Kawhi Leonard and Chris Singleton are in this cat's class is sadly mistaken. This is a professional workout by a highly skilled up player right here. Watch. <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KmwfM_6DxkQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I'd go one step further and say he will end up better than Williams. That might be a stretch for some people to believe. Williams is actually your classic tweener that people keep accusing Morris of, instead of a natural SF. He is very athletic, gets to the line a ton, is a great shooter(incredible even), and overall is the most efficient offensive player in the nation. However, his handles are suspect, and most importantly he struggles scoring off the bounce or on the move. Or rather, he rarely ever even attempts it. Creating your own shot is kind of a requisite skill set for elite offensive players, especially on the wing. The fact that Williams is lacking in that department is what makes his stock suspect IMO. He also lacks a natural smoothness to his game which is why I see him more in the Shawn Marion/Jamison/Harrington mold. Funny enough, exactly what people say about Morris. Morris is almost as efficient as Williams, but what makes him even more impressive to me is he is the most efficient post scorer in the nation, and he is highly efficient creating off the dribble and off screens. To still have an unbelievable overall efficiency taking those difficult shots is what attracts me the most to him. The difference between Williams and Morris is one will be highly effective working within an offense(tweener Kevin Martin), while the other can actually carry an offense. That is the difference between a great role player, and a game changer.
You may be right. I'd like to have either one of them. I do think Morris has the better handle. But Williams appears to be more powerful and when you look at the fouls he draws,.....there's your replacement for Martin. If the info about Sac wanting money for picks is true, I'd like to see us bag a primary big like Kanter and get Morris in combo. I'd trade Martin to get that done too. And I think I'd probably trade Martin if I could get Williams and Biyombo too.
I have a sense of dread about this draft, I think it could be historically bad. My hope is that the Rockets trade out (for future picks) and run like scalded dogs.
Roy, D-Will, Pierce are easy. Here is a question for you: Do you think Caron Butler in his prime, minus the injuries, could have been the best player on a (stacked)championship team? I think Morris could be a slightly better version of Butler as well.
