You realize the "history" this team has with the Cards and Cubs is less than 20 years old and that it's mostly been a non-rivalry for the majority of those years? I mean, does anyone have any lingering hate for the Cards prior to 2004? And they have no rivarly with the Mets, other than a 25-year old playoff series. The Braves are really the one constant - we shared a division with them and then after that, met them in the playoffs often - but even that doesn't have more than 15 years to it, really, because the teams weren't good together until, really, '99. There are legitimate reasons to not move, I guess - I just don't think inflating these rivalries is one. Trust me, we would learn to hate the Angels, Rangers, et al, in due time. Whoa, whoa.... Let's not compare Astros/Cards to Cowboys/Eagles/Giants/Redskins. Different zip codes.
Definitley different zip codes, but my point is rivalry was why they stayed put... Given the majority of my memories are within that 20 year period, my rivalry argument stands...and yes, hating the Cards and Cubs will never get old...Can I hate other teams, sure, but it just ain't right
Doesn't have to be a rivalry to be legit history. Nor do the teams have to be "good". Hell, all those lean years in the '70s and '80s made '80, '81, '86, and the late '90s that much sweeter. Let me tell you, I hated the Braves and Cardinals in the early '80s. And the Dodgers--especially the Dodgers. I hated the Mets as soon as Ray Knight went up there, and especially after freaking '86 and Fred Brocklander. This is an NL town, and it should remain an NL town.
afraid? pshhh. no "fear" here, just a general disdain for the AL altogether, *especially* the "DH" bullcrap. when the Astros suck, they'll suck in either league. and when they're good again, they'll be good in either league. but I'll take the senior circuit and *real* baseball, tyvm.
Only thing I am afraid of is having to watch 4 hour snoozefests where five guys on the team try to work walks and four try to club 3 run home runs. The NL is real baseball with rules and strategies that have stood the test of time since the late 1800's not 1973. Don't be afraid to not be brainwashed by ESPN's "Only the Yankees and BoSox matter" creed.
If you're not good, you have no rivalries. Sorry - that's kind of a rule. You hated the Braves, who were a non-factor in baseball during those years? And yeah, everyone hated the Cards and Dodgers and Mets - because they won. Do you think Dodger fans hated the Astros? No way. And would you not instantly hate the Sox? The Yankees? The Rangers and their bandwagon fans? You'd find teams to hate pretty easily, regardless of league. Look, I respect where you're coming from - but I think you need a little perspective. There's not a storied legacy here; there just isn't. The Astros are about as milquetoast a franchise as there is. They obviously had an uptick with Bagwell and Biggio - but we're talking about roughly 10 great years out of very nearly 50. Among their top three accomplishments as a franchise is their 1970s rainbow jerseys. I mean... I think maybe fear of change and moving on is making a few too many of you misty-eyed and nostalgic about a history that doesn't really exist. Do you think *any* MLB fan outside of Houston hears the Astros and thinks, "Now *that's an NL town!"? Of course not. This team is terrible. It's been terrible for years and will likely be terrible for several more. I'm warming up to the idea of *something* exciting happening, even if its just changing leagues.
I'm sorry but AL baseball is a lot more exciting than watching pitchers go up there and whiff 4 times in a row and go back to sit down. Killing a rally. Yea thats so much fun.
yeah I guess I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind being in the AL. We don't have a legitimate rivalry with anyone and it would be nice to have guaranteed sellouts with big teams coming through. I'm definitely not nearly as passionate about the DH as some people are on here- I'm a causal baseball fan. One real downsides I see are 1- playing west coast teams will be screwy with time zones 2- having to compete with the big spenders to be competitive, but even that isn't completely true. If you build a team the right way, it's very possible to be a competitor.
The Cubs and Cards have had a rivarly for years...the Cubs have rarely been good. The Red Sox and Yankees have had a one-sided rivalry until recently. But it's been a rivalry nonetheless. Do you think I care what they think? I KNOW Houston is an NL town because I've lived here my entire life with an NL team, no matter what someone somewhere else thinks about it. The Astros are looking at 50 years of National League play. That's not nothing. You may not care about that, and that's your view...but clearly there a quite a few of us who do.
That is just a return for us, and keeps us in the NL. If they want Texas and the Astros to be in the same division, move us both to the NL West, and put the Rockies & Diamondbacks in the AL. However, I'd prefer they stay in the AL.
The quote was "It doesn't have to be a rivalry to be legit history." So, regardless of your invalid "rule" and regardless of whether you or anyone else considers the Astros to have had "rivalries", our history is legit. You can compare our franchise's history to that of century+ old storied franchises or to that of franchises who have actually *won* something (...anything...) and call it "milquetoast" all you like, but it's still our history. This town. Say "Spec Richardson" to a Houstonian and he throws up in his mouth. Say "Spec Richardson" to a guy in Philly and he's like, "wha?" Yes. Because we played them 18 times a year. And because we didn't win in Atlanta a lot. And because the 6:30 start time meant I could see more of the game and become more familiar with them. "Hate" doesn't always have to be about championship-penis envy, Ric. No, actually. Not "instantly". I didn't spend 40 years watching my team face those guys year-in and year-out. And truth be told, I've never had much of a problem with the Yankees. Who freaking cares? It's junior circuit ball, for crying out loud. Let me give you some perspective, from a guy who read baseball history books all of his childhood and memorized stats from players who were dead and who lived and breathed Astros baseball for several decades: I don't give a rat's ass how the Astros' history stacks up against that of other towns. This is our town and our history, short and uneventful as it might be in your eyes. Of course I don't expect you or anyone else to have the same nostalgia or emotional connection to the team and its NL roots, but this is a discussion forum and we'll all say what we think, and I think there may be others who feel the way I do. Wait I minute, I thought you "respect where I'm coming from?" This "fear of change" bullcrap is as condescending as it is inaccurate. Just because you don't agree or don't see it the same way, don't start assuming others suffer from sort of emotional or intellectual lack. And by the way, the history *does* exist, whether you want to belittle it or not. '86 was one of the greatest LCS ever. '80 was outstanding, too. Ryan pitched here. Eddie Matthews hit his 500th here. Watson scored the millionth run in MLB history. JR Richard made the Dodgers pee their pants. Ken Johnson pitched a no-hitter and lost the game. Don Wilson's 2nd no-hitter came against the Reds a day after they no-hit us. It "exists", all right. And I'm well aware that changing leagues won't take it away--but it will mean even *fewer* games against the teams we've made our history playing against. And that sucks. (And, btw, AL ball sucks, too.) Do you think I care? Do you really think that matters? Bully for you. For me, AL "baseball" is boring as hell.
[rquoter]Under the possible plan, the leagues would not be split into divisions. The top three teams would make the playoffs. The fourth- and fifth-place clubs would be wild cards and play for one spot.[/rquoter] http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6659129
so the whole AL West/NL West discussion is moot in that case. if the D-Backs or Marlins move to the AL...doesn't matter....they're not going to be in a geographically aligned division, anyway.
