Is it acceptable for a true Rockets fan to root for Dallas?

I am not against the Heat. I am against Lebron and Bosh (not D Wade). What Heat management did is exactly what they need to do as a business. But what Lebron did is said "I quit. I just want to do whatever's the easiest and this way, I'll get a championship". Lebron does not get it. What is a championship to a player? They already make millions and they own cars and fancy homes that is 50 times the value of a ring. So obviously, getting the physical rings are meaningless from a value perspective. The point of the championship is saying "I was able to prevent what my greatest rival wanted". It is a symbol. An authentic stamp which states I was the best of my era.

We know Jordan is the best of his era because he beat Magic, Drexler, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Isiah, Reggie Miller and Payton in their primes. It is not about how many championships Jordan won. Robert Horry has as many rings as Michael Jordan, but no one ever questions who was better. It is not about the championships as much as it is who was beaten on the path to those championships.

Do you get it now?

 

No, he doesn't. Get ready to go back and forth with him.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not a regular here. Is there something I should know with this guy? Is he a Miami fan?

 

Jordan had a great team in the Bulls because Bulls management, after some years, did a good job drafting and trading to get him one. LeBron did not have this luxury in Cleveland. He left for a better situation. Now you can argue (and others have) that he shouldn't have gone to Miami where there was already another elite player, where he wasn't the defacto #1 guy. I can see that POV. I personally think LeBron is the #1 guy there and if that isn't universally recognized as such right at this moment, it will be in the years to come.

I guess I don't see a big difference in being on a team that already has great players and going to a team that has great players. There is plenty of precedent for the former (eg, Kareem & Magic, Shaq & Kobe, even Jordan & Pippen). You do what you can to win, because it is not a given that, even as a great player, you will ever win. Even great players that join great talent (eg, Barkley teaming up with KJ) sometimes don't win, and even those that do win regret not making the move sooner (KG says this exact thing).

 

I am not, but I view LeBron's situation much differently than other people here. If you don't want to engage in a conversation given that information, that's fine. Unlike Outlier, I will actually make coherent posts on a diversity of topics.

 

Here's the thing.

Lebron and Wade are arguably the top 2 players in the league ( Durant notwithstanding ). If you willingly joined forces with the guy you're supposed to challange, then you are a p***y. One can even say you are a bully. But the most damaging criticism one will say about you is that you hid behind your rival, refused to be the man, and took all the pressure off yourself. It's a matter of PRIDE. Can you imagine Jordan losing to Bad Boys Detroit in the playoffs then signing with them the next season? I bet you if Jordan had signed with Detroit and played with Isiah's crew, they would win the championship, but we would view Jordan very differently. We would view him as a p***y. We would view Isiah as the rival who pissed all over him and made him kiss his ass. It's MANHOOD we're talking about. What's the point of winning a championship if it's won kissing another rival's ass and willing to play second fiddle with him?

Do you get it now?

 

The topic you are arguing with him about is the SAME EXACT ONE I had with him a few days ago. He will resort to calling you a "hater". That's what he calls "coherent" :grin:

And I just read your latest post, and that's the same thing I told him. So this will not end well.

 

But if LeBron and Durant just happened to be on the same team (through the draft or maybe a trade?) then it's OK? I mean, if they really have competitive spirit, they should demand being traded off that team, right?

 

He is right; I am a hater. I hate the idea of ignoring competition and thinking a $10,000 ring means something if you win it by stomping over inferior competition while kissing your rival's ass.

 

But clearly they aren't stomping the competition, largely because the team has a lot of deficiencies due to the fact that most of their salary goes to the "big 3". Why is this so hard for people to understand? The rules are in place to make true superteams next to impossible to exist, unless you really do believe that three guys is enough to win every game.

 

Here's the part where he pulls crap out of his ass. If I were you brother, I'd do something else more worth your time.

 

No, dummy.

It's about choice. I keep repeating this. If Lebron and Durant was drafted or traded together, they did not choose the circumstances they are in and therefore, are excluded from the criticism of avoiding one another. In order to be the best, you shouldn't willingly avoid playing someone that can potentially challange you. It exposes you as a fraud. For example, Floyd Mayweather does not want to fight Manny Pacquio. Whatever the real reason, people question Mayweather's manhood and legacy as the best. Do you want to be questioned all the time as an athlete? Lebron James could have chosen to face Wade, but he doesn't want to. He's scared. Not only of Wade but of everyone else. When things go bad, he'll say, hey it was Wade's fault. If things so well, he'll say hey I got a ring by passing the ball and being a cheerleader. He's a skirt.

 

I think it's past your bedtime, little boy.

 

Right, but once they are together and are ruining the league with their greatness, shouldn't they choose to get out to win on their own? I mean, there is a precedent for this. Kobe did it in 2004, when he demanded Shaq be traded or he himself would leave. Did he do the right thing?

The reason I have a problem with your POV is it is about individuals and legacies, and I don't believe basketball (or any team sport) should be about that. I don't care what Kobe's legacy is or what LeBron's legacy is. I want to see great teams and I have faith that the CBA will allow this type of thing to happen without completely ruining parity. Whether that means LeBron "pussed out" or whatever is meaningless to me, because I just don't care. I want to see good basketball and I think the Heat have the potential to provide that. Heck, this Finals has been one of the most entertaining ever because of the star power on these teams.

 

No, but they represent something that could be a more extreme take toward that direction if they should win. If Miami wins, bigger superteams will be built. More superstars will take salary cuts. And then we'll end up with something like a Carmelo, Lebron, Wade, Howard, Paul, Deron Williams, Rose, Durant, Griffin, Love, Westbrook, Rondo superteam that goes 82-0 and beats the Kyle Lowry-led Houston Rockets 4-0 in the Finals and with audicity call it a "victory".

 

No, we won't, because money is the single-most important thing to these players (when you factor in cost of living and taxes, LBJ & Bosh didn't really take a pay cut.. the only guy who sacrificed anything was Haslem, and he has strong Miami ties).

 

Great post.

Spoiler

 

This Finals has been one of the most entertaining ever because so many people dislike the Heat and the storyline about Lebron's decline is so deliciously interesting. I felt the other rounds actually had better basketball (Memphis/Thunder for example).

But back to your main point here, yes, I think Kobe did do the right thing. Not the pushing Shaq out part, but his choice of leaving for another team (Clippers or whoever) to be his own man. I will forever respect Kobe 50 times more than I will respect Lebron. And even when Kobe nudged management to get another star player, he made that star player come to join HIM...not the other way around. He didn't say trade me to Memphis so I can lick Gasol's balls and hide in the fourth quarter. You notice how I do not have an issue with Wade? Wade is the ultimate winner in this. We see Lebron holding Wade's jock strap and asking Wade if he is holding his jock strap comfortably. What the hell kind of "king" or chosen one is this? I'm sorry, but I can't respect that. Lebron will go down in history not as a top 20 player. He will be on the same platform as Worthy, Pippen and the five Detroit guys that won in 2004. That is SAD. Lebron had the talent to be the greatest player of all time. Now he's lucky if he's even ranked higher than Dennis Rodman.

Yes, this is about legacy. This isn't peewee sports where every team wins and drinks fruit punch. Sorry to burst *your* bubble.

 

Okay, let me ask you this Clippy...

Let's say a rich kid can live with his parents for the rest of his life and be sheltered. He can splurge money all he wants, go to all the hottest clubs, and throw a million parties. Would you respect this person?

Let's say this same privilaged kid walks away from it all, says he wants to start from scratch, and builds an empire ALL ON HIS OWN. Would you respect that person more?

In both scenarios, he's rich.

 

I want to add more to this. I don't have an edit button available to my account; sorry for the constant posting...

Thinking about this more now, I think Kobe absolutely did the right thing after winning those three championships with Shaq. At that point he realized what a fourth, fifth and possibly sixth championship would mean if he continued winning it with another top 5 player. It would've meant absolutely nothing. There wasn't any challenge to it. As an athlete, the challenge and conquering that challenge is everything. I'm not a fan of Kobe, but I can admit he absolutely understood that part.