First off, you are mixing up seasons to make your argument look better. Brown and Atkins were one year, Parker and Kwame the next. I'm not saying it was a good team. I'm saying it was an average team. Most superstars have this kind of cast their whole career. The fact is that Odom was a better sidekick than many superstars ever get, as inconsistent as he may have been. He was the #1 guy on the Clippers for many years and I was sick to see him leave for Miami. He was in that trade for Shaq (along with Caron, another good player) for a reason. The rest of the guys were serviceable role players. Vlad Rad had some good seasons in Seattle and with the Clippers. Turiaf wasn't bad at all (just young then). I mean, go through other teams that year and see how many scrubs are on them. Did Gasol really have more help? He won 50.
Kobe's career would have mirrored Alex English's career had it not been for a superior supporting cast. And Alex, in terms of reputations, is light years below what people believe Kobe's status in the game is. In fact, Kobe and Alex are similar players in my opinion.
Maybe you should look at the game that broke Detroit's back: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270531008 Or just look at the whole series if you want to feel worse about your argument. Again, is Boobie Gibson even in the league anymore? You still want to trade him for Odom?
Gasol had Battier, Wright (RIP), JWill, Posey, Bonzi. And that is just off the top of my head. They were deep as hell. Yes. Yes Gasol really did have more help. ALOT more help. Basketball is a team game and those Memphis teams were actual teams not one superstar one sidekick and a bunch of D-Leaguers. And you are right, I am lumping all of those Kobe D-League teams together. Vlad Rad and young Turiaf are now your reasons as to why Kobe had legitimate supporting casts? Seriously? Does that even make sense to you?
And it really becomes dramatic when you look at the Finals, where Wade is an all-time great and Kobe is an all-time bust.
All of this talk makes me once again realize how truly GREAT Hakeem Olajuwon was. Never was there a question about his playoff moxy. He is, without question, the greatest player EVER who consistently elevated his game from the regular season into the playoffs. 49/25 was just one of many legendary individual performances. It didn't matter who he faced...he was going to absolutely obliterate them. /tangent
Duncan's career would have mirrored Malone's if he did not have Parker, Manu, Bowen, Robinson, Popovic... But you'll find a lot of people say 'Hes the best PF ever.' (I agree with that btw) The argument that 'If Kobe didn't have...' is a argument that can be made for most players. Jordan would not have won 6 rings without Pippen.
When did I say I'd trade him for Odom? LOL that is BS and you know it. I never said anything along those lines. I said LBJ had a more complete supporting cast. Guys like Zydrunas, Gooden, Varaejao, Hughes, Boobie. Even Zerby and Marshall at old age were solid. It was better than Odom and a bunch of D-Leaguers. All I am saying is one man did not take that '07 Cavs to the finals (yes he had one big game but it wasn't one game which took them there either. Plus he was nonexistent in the very next game. Want to talk about inconsistency?) Yes Boobie Gibson is still in the league and he was actually solid last year (tho the Cavs sucked).
Nope, Odom is a reason why Kobe had a legitimate supporting cast. Again, better than anyone Bron had before this year. One good sidekick and a bunch of role players should be enough to be decent in this league, if you are a marquee player. Kobe is just a cut below.
Oh come on. Odom was an IDIOT. There are countless videos showing the ridiculous mistakes Odom makes over an over again. Kobe nuthuggers are annoying, and I dislike Kobe as much as the next guy but come on the guy had a horrible supporting cast and it's not even debatable. Give the man some credit. Odom as your second best player? Yeah you won't go far with that, especially if your third best player is say... Luke Walton?
The grizzlies also played the deepest Sun's team ever assembled, a deep mavericks team and the spurs. Both the suns and dallas went to the wcf. Spurs team was the same that a year before went to the nba finals. Pau was undermanned.
Odom is not a true sidekick. Look at all the great duos. Even some of the average ones, each had two guys who could carry the team if say the other gets hurt. A true sidekick can go off and be a franchise player for another team. Also the other guys weren't actually role players. The Houston Rockets as they are now are a bunch of role players. The guys outside of Dirk and Chandler are a bunch of roleplayers. Those guys were scrubs.
Better than what LeBron had the last eight years. Anyway, we are going in circles. I'll bow out now. I think Kobe has had a great career, but in my book he's in the same tier with other good guards and swings in this league like Allen, Drexler, 'Nique, Gervin, AI etc. I'd put Wade a level above and MJ and Bron many levels above. I suspect that history will agree with me when all is said and done, but if it doesn't, fine by me.
Seriously? You may not have liked stockton, but I'd take him over any spur other than Tim. Plus they had russell, horacek, andersen, eaton I think was on their team. Seriously?
this was kobes starting line up in 2005-2006 K. Bryant ▪ B. Cook ▪ C. Mihm ▪ L. Odom ▪ S. Parker in 2006 - 2007 K. Bryant ▪ A. Bynum ▪ L. Odom ▪ S. Parker ▪ L. Walton Andrew Bynum was a 2nd year player. Lamar missed 26 games in that year. Where are parker, mihm, cook, and walton in their career now? Lebron's team had mo wiliams, delonte west, anderson varajao, big Z, daniel gibson
You are proving my point. Which is my point about Kobe...every championship team outside of Hakeem Rockets really...is loaded with talent. So to discredit him because he had Pau, he had Shaq, is BS. Because you look at those Jazz teams and they won nothing still because of Jordan's Bulls and Hakeem's rockets. Look at the past champions. They are all LOADED with great players. Celtics Ray, Garnett, Rondo, Pierce Spurs Manu, Parker, Duncan Pistons Billups,Hamilton, Sheed, Wallace Lakers we know about. Just look back at all the championship teams. You will find a couple if not 3 HOFamers on each team. So this notion that if Kobe didn't have Shaq or Pau he would not be a top 3 SG is silly. Because obviously that is the case if you take off a great player from a team then things change drastically. If Jordan didn't have Pippen he's not winning 6 championships no matter how great he was. I just get tired of hearing that knock on Kobe. It's unfair because most championship teams are loaded.
5 rings with only 1 HOF teammate 5 rings with only 1 all star teammate "Kobe's has played with a loaded supporting cast" LOL
Every team that wins the championship has to have talent. Even the rockets had talent. Horry, Cassel, Ellie Scotty Brooks OT Maxwell Smith. These were all talented players. But the question is HOW MUCH talent do you have. When Kobe wins his talent usually exceeds the talent of every other team in the league. That is why Tim's accomplishment will always be greater than what kobe did, because Tim never had anyone as great as Shaq.
