You're right in that Pence's circumstances are not his fault. You're not right that I "don't wanna appreciate people". I love the way Pence plays the game, too. But to me the best decisions now involve building for the future--not paying $10MM+ for a 6-hitter who's hitting 3rd because that's how ridiculously thin your POS team is. It's time to build with youth, not horde second-tier expensive guys when we're not going to compete this year or next. But sure, if it will make you feel better I'll toast Pence and Bourn on their way out.
Pence does nothing for us right now, VERY good player but like i've said, on a club on pace to lose 100 games...do you really want to pay anyone 10 million a year? Trade Pence for two nice prospects and move on. Attendance already sucks, compared to a few years ago, and no one really cares about the Stros outside of us diehards. If Crane would have come out and said that we are now going to be big spenders and are ready to be the Yankees South, then keep him and build around him but he basically said the exact opposite.
Please do. I'm in line with your thinking, it just sounds like you regarding Pence and Bourn as pure assets and not people.
oh, guilty as charged then. on a personal side, yeah I hope they succeed wherever they go (except against my Astros). and if they stay, I'll remain a huge fan. but yeah, my comments were focused purely on building this thing for the future, and I don't thing paying a guy like Pence $10MM+ when you're still likely going to lose 80+ games helps in the least.
ok. Everyone handles the way he follows his team differently, so to each his own. As for me: I love the Astros and always will. Every continent I've spent time on and every state I've been in, the Astros and all Houston teams are my teams, but my Astros are #1. That doesn't mean I don't call that sticky, brown excrement substance "crap" when we have it, though. And if the best thing for my Astros is to trade someone, I'm all for trading them. As long as they still sport the mud'n'blood, though, I'm in their corner. Again, all I said was "if I could say good-bye to Oswalt and Berkman I can certainly say good-bye to Pence and/or Bourn." How is that some major slight?
When discussing building a team, it seems stupid to me to think of the players in any other way but assets. They're not listening in on the conversation, they won't be offended -- what's the big deal? It would be a bad business move to let your personal feelings affect how you build a championship caliber team. You don't keep Hunter Pence because he's the best player on one of the worst teams in baseball and you like him an awful lot -- you do what's best for the franchise moving forward.
To be clear: I never once said I was above trading Hunter Pence. To that end I think only the most diehard, obsessed fan of 'the team' would so calmly talk about trading the best, most exciting player for talent that probably won't contribute anything in the near term. Hunter has given me a lot more reasons to cheer for him personally than the team as a whole lately. The organization has been run by idiot GM's for the last 5 years and the owner lets just say he's no Les Alexander or even Mark Cuban. Is letting Hunter and Bourn go probably better for the Astros in long term? Possibly, but it's not a certainty. And to address your "building a championship caliber team" remark, I'd start with replacing the idiot GM/owner combo first. I'm pretty angry their ineptitude led to this situation in the first place.
ad hominem. You don't concur with the reasoning behind the other's position, so you assume that there must be something inherently wrong or excessive in his motives or character. I assume you're smarter than that. My position is what it is. If everyone saw things exactly the way you or I see them, how boring would that be?
I'm more then ready to move Pence to the Phillies. Honestly, I don't see a logical scenario where he doesn't get moved to Philly. The connections are all there and the Phillies need another bat desperately. I would love to get Singleton out of the deal but it maybe difficult to pry him away. I'd be more then happy to get Cosart, the guy has been dynamite at single A. Another starting pitching prospect would be ideal along with an infielder. Wandy and Detroit seem like a natural fit too, love to see what we can get out of that system for him. Not sure Cleveland would move any of their talent, being so young. Texas also fits and they have talent to spare. Either way, I want to come away with two good prospects out of this deadline to go with Springer, Houser...etc.
