Western Conference Finals: Dallas Mavericks vs Oklahoma City Thunder

you don't think WB deserve a max contract? and you don't think a coach who just got a team in their early 20s in the WCF deserve to return?

i know you're critical of them, but c'mon.

 

Was going to address this fully but A_3PO already did. Ibaka is a RAPIDLY improving big man. 21 yrs old, only been in the league 2 seasons and anyone can see how crazy quick his game is developing. Already one of the top 3 pt shooters and rebounders in the game. Can knock down the 15-20 footer, all he needs now is a better post up game. Talked to him tonight and asked what he would be doing this summer, first thing he said was back to the gym to work on his post up game. The dude is not finished yet and I can't wait to see where he's at in 5 years.

Also, he was in a walking boot everytime he was off the court for the first 3 games of the series(for his ankle) and both his ankle and knee(niggling injuries he picked up before this series) were bothering him. Add in defending Dirk for a series for the first time and it wasn't a good mix but he played okay this series.

 

Funny enough I missed all that and my buddy called to tell me about Dirk walking off while Cuban was being interviewed. I was actually waiting for the OKC players when the Mavs came off the court through the entrance they normally enter from(not their normal exit off the court) and Dirk was the first off. I noticed he was happy but had no hat on and wasn't as psyched as the rest of the team following behind him. (mainly the bench players were psyched). Dirk, Matrix and Jkidd walked off like, it's the WCF, we ain't done **** yet.
That was good to see, they no this isn't the goal.

 

Three rings with that team doesn't put him ahead of Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Magic, or Kareem.

 

Lebron's move to Miami pretty much excludes him from any significant "Greatest Ever" lists... IMO...


He could win ten rings and still be behind Michael, Magic, Dream and Larry and, etc...

 

it would not put him above jordan, but it would put him in the top 3.

if he continues his play right now, his dominance would exceed over 13-14 years, which is ridiculous.

if he continues to rack up MVPs and ends up with 4+, that elevates him even more.


but it's hard for us to gauge where he would end up now when he will most likely put up at least 6 seasons of this type of play still. and we don't know what other accolades and success he'll garner.

 

MVP trophies are one of the most overrated things in basketball. It doesn't define a player's greatness or even who the best player in the league is at that time because if it did Jordan would have at least 10. Nash has more than Hakeem, Kobe and Shaq and he is nowhere near the same level of player as them. With his current team he has to win at least get 4-5 to elevate himself to top 3 all time and even then I don't know if you can put him over Dream, Duncan, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, and Magic.

 

Not really ridiculous if you think about all the players who have dominated the league in different ways for a long time. Of course, Lebron hasn't exactly dominated this league until 3 years ago, where his team was actually the best record wise.

You have to define what you mean by dominance.

 

"individual" dominance. team dominance only comes when you have a decent team around you.

jordan didn't have playoff success until the early 90s and he was "dominant" for 5-6 years then. so you don't need to have team success to be considered a "dominant" player. he won the MVP in 87-88 when his team merely won 50 games (and he won DPOY that year too).

lebron was dominant from his 2nd year in the L. he was basically a top 5-6 player from that year on, and has officially became the best player 3 years ago.

i'll bet with you that lebron will be considered the best SF of all time when his career is over.

 

Stats Guide - Pts/Rbs/Ast/Stl/fg%/3p%/ft%

Lebron's Career Stats - 27.7/7.1/7.0/1.7/47.9/32.9/74.4

Bird's Career Stats - 24.3/10/6.3/1.7/49.6/37.6/88.6

The stat lines are very comparable and Bird has 3 rings. Lebron has to get 5 with that team and to really separate himself from Bird.

 

If you mean individual dominance, then it really isn't that surprising. A lot of players have dominanted the league for a long time.

Take Joe Johnson for example, he is still one of the most unguardable players in the league. Doesn't that qualify him as dominating?

There are ALOT of players that have dominated individually for a long time, so it's really not that surprising.

 

It is truly a shame that a young fan would disrespect French Lick like this. Sometimes logging on to Clutchfans makes me sick... Talk about useless analysis from an individual that has no scope of what it means to be truly great.

 

You can't measure greatness. All you have to do is watch. Anyone that watched Larry in his prime knows that it is not remotely close. Similar analysis is how you seperate Jordan and Kobe. Again, you can't measure greatness, you can only watch. Problem is, most of today's generation has little reference, and is therefore incredibly biased.

Ask a 45+ year old what the difference is between Larry and Lebron...

 

Yeah OKC did do well but given how stacked they are, conf finals is to be expected (especially given their road there. Not saying that it is easy, but they did have HCA in both rounds, their first round matchup was against a team which traded their best player after the All-Star break and their second round matchup against the eight seed. Wasn't easy, never is easy, both teams played hard but they did beat teams which they were expected to beat. From a talent standpoint, it wasn't miraculous or overachieving). I think that the one thing which will probably be remembered this postseason would be the choking (specifically, the coughing of the 15 point lead with 4.5 minutes left). I would not be the least bit shocked if Brooks is let go to bring in a more experienced coach (Adelman). Kind of hope that it does happen (that would be exciting to watch and OKC would be a force to be reckoned with).

 

I'm not sure what you think I'm saying because I am on the Larry side. I already said in an earlier post that when Lebron retires Larry will most likely still be the greatest small forward to play the game. Lebron has a lot of time to close the gap but I don't think it is going to happen. You should also check your math because you don't have to be 45+ to have watched Larry.

 

do you know who larry bird played with?

 

What's your point? If Lebron ends up with 4 rings stats/accomplishments wise him and Bird are very comparable because they both had good supporting casts. 5 rings puts him two ahead of Larry which is a bit more separation.

 

Bird played on a superteam, too.

Also it makes little sense to compare raw numbers when comparing players of different generations, because they don't take things like game pace into account. During the early 80's, both average pace and averate fg% were quite a bit higher. Looking at PER is probably a better measure.

 

lebron still has AT LEAST 6-7 prime years left, and probably 2-3 years afterward. the guy still has a long way to go before his career is over. i'm simply projecting what will happen based on what is happening now.

 

What will happen is, his stats will start dropping as he ages. Thus, so will his career stats. Which in turn drags him further away from all time greats.

Perhaps if he could adapt his game, and it seasons well like MJ's or Kobe's, he wouldn't suffer from a drop off.