All speculation. Nothing has changed from where we were 18 months ago to where we are now when we acquired all the contracts on the roster. We were a mediocre team with injured Yao just like we are now except now we actually have cap flexibility, so there's less actually incentive to start over (unlike a team like Charlotte). Btw Morey saying that "we don't have championship roster" doesn't mean anything. Philly or any other team as young as us also doesn't have a championship roster but that doesn't mean they're starting over.
DD, I agree with you and you've fought off the onslaught of critics admirably. Courtney Lee is absolutely a better defender than Kevin Martin and those who say otherwise must not watch many Rockets games. There's a reason that Lee was playing heavy minutes in the fourth quarter over Martin at times this last season. There are plenty of people complaining about how Martin has x many good years left -- OF COURSE HE DOES! Nobody is suggesting that he's a broken-down overpaid contract; that's the whole point of selling high. If we keep Martin until his contract expires in two years, more than likely there will be a dip in his numbers and there's always the chance that he gets injured again. Furthermore, you will not get as much of a return for an expiring contract. Now is the time to trade him if we can capitalize by gaining a top five pick. Rockets fans who envision us trading Martin for a superstar need to stop bogarting the joint. It seems obvious to me (and many others apparently) that Martin is not good enough to be flipped for a superstar player. He's not young enough to fit into rebuilding plans and he's not good enough to carry a team by himself. Martin is a great third fiddle -- unfortunately the Rockets are forcing him into the first fiddle. For those suggesting we trade Luis Scola before Martin -- we welcome that trade as well. Unfortunately, we also realize that Scola's value is even less than Martins. The reason there's not a "sell high on Scola" thread is because Scola most likely cannot fetch you a top draft pick like Martin possibly could. And now for the reader comments: Nobody thinks that. We understand why Martin is ahead of Lee; but that doesn't mean that Lee can't step into Martin's shoes and pick up the slack. Will we score as much? Of course not. Will we defend better? Of course. It doesn't mean that the (Rockets - Martin + Lee) are just as good -- it means that we'd rather have the (Rockets - Martin + Lee + T5 Draft pick).. I think that is a better team going forward as we rebuild. josh, leave your feelings out of the argument. Nobody is hating on Martin, just debating on what we feel is the best course for this franchise to take. Advocating to trade Martin for a Top 5 draft pick isn't hate -- if anything, it's us realizing Martin's value and wanting to take advantage of it to kick-start the rebuilding. Some of you would rather continue on the course of the 14th pick and that's your opinion -- but a lot of us want to see this franchise actually rebuild from the draft instead of trading for band-aids every year. Martin can't make plays for himself either? DD said we'd have a better overall team; you reverted right back into a discussion of our offense. There is more to basketball than drawing fouls and spot-up shooting, which is why DD was referring to the overall team and not just offense. I don't want to be the Golden State Warriors with the best offense and mediocre results. I'm picturing these guys with their hands over their ears as Morey delivered the Adelman news. Let's see... the Rockets got rid of one of the best coaches in the NBA; the coach said him and Morey could not agree on a philosophy for the team moving forward; Morey explained that we do not have a championship roster and several more moves are needed to get there; and one of the most plugged in sources on the Rockets wrote an article about the Rockets preferring to win big v. win now. Yup.. all speculation and no substance.
Yawn, all speculation. Young team with no bad contracts and cap flexibility isn't going to get rid of a roster that was constructed entirely within the last 18 months lol. Also it comes as quite the news to me that a top 5 iso points per possession player can't create for himself. Hey guys, Dirk can't create for himself either!
I can't tell if you're asking because you think Martin can't create, or because you thought I implied that he couldn't (which I didn't mean to do). Anyway...Yes, Martin is one of three players on the Rockets roster who you can trust to make plays. If he leaves, that will leave two (Lowry and Scola)....with the majority of that responsibility falling to Lowry. Clutch may be pretty connected, but it doesn't sound like he was at all aware of what came out in the recent article that the job was offered to Adelman with a shake-up to his assistant staff. I refuse to buy the excuse that the Rockets only did that because "they knew he would say no." If that were true, then the Rockets are a Bush League organization, and I just can't believe that. If anything, it doesn't sound like the Rockets were near as decisive about getting rid of Adelman as some of you are making it out to be.
DD, I'm happy that you're back, but for the love of god, can you put aside the "Lead Dog" "Alpha Dog" "Top Dog" crap? Maybe you should open a kennel. Seriously, reading those "gems" in your posts is beyond tiresome, at least for me. Also, you trumpeted Martin for years, at least that's what I recall, and were never that concerned about the "flaws" you mention now, but now things are in an upheaval in Rockets Land, thanks to management dementia, so things have changed. Having said that, I'm also willing to move Kevin in a deal that nets us a top three pick in this draft. Hopefully, the Pup's #2. Not because I want to move Martin. I don't, but because Morey/Less were stupid enough to fire Adelman, and Yao is toast, until proven otherwise, so we may as well give Morey a shot at getting talent at the top spots of this draft and get some serious young talent on this team. Either a 5 (my fond hope) or a 3. An impact player who has future All Star stamped on his fizz. Come on, DD... leave the dogs at home.
You are free to believe as you wish. There is just too much information out there for me not to conclude that the Rockets plan on rebuilding. I'm sure that plan could change at any moment if a GM becomes drunk and prefers our trade assets over others. But as of now, this team isn't good enough -- the Rockets and Morey both seemingly realize that. Clutch never mentioned the shake up with his assistants; that was Richard Justice I believe (who doesn't even really cover the Rockets, but I'll assume knows Adelman). The real truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of what we've read. Either way, you don't get rid of the best coach available in the NBA -- who already has his system in place and proven to be effective -- if you plan on trying to contend in the next few years. There's no logic behind that. If you believe the Rockets are not rebuilding, then you must also believe that the Rockets feel that Casey/Frank/McHale is better suited to make us contenders than Adelman is. I just don't buy it.
Can't see a KM trade right now that makes us better in the short or long term. This is a weak draft, possibly no franchise players. Trust that Morey knows who is going to pan out and who isn't. If there is somewhere there at #2, he will jump on it, but other than that its dumb just to sell high on a still relatively young player. Scola is the only guy I'd actively be looking to move.
after seeing durant not make it to the line nearly as much in playoffs.. I have to say I am leaning more towards selling on martin.
THANK YOU. Is martin only getting fouled on alley oops or on layups from cuts to the basket? NO! He drives the lane to get fouled...you know.. creating for himself Martin probably wont be as good in a non adelman system?.... again horse****! Martin played just as well as he did this year as he did in his years in SACTO without adelman. Only problem is he had the couple fluke injuries during that time.... You guys act like moving without the ball and cutting hard all the time are going to hurt him in a different system...did yall ever play basketball? That type of constant hustle and movement works in ANY system... Martin's production is gonna dip in two years at age 30!??? Jesus christ, look at the careers of all the excellent shooters in the past. They play forever because age doesn't take your shot away! reggie miller, john stockton, brent barry, nash, ellie, mullin, kerr, price, hawkins, hornacek, billups, allen, stojakovic, d ellis.... going down the list of the leaders in TS% nearly every guard or forward had an extended career of continued solid production, great shooters last because they are rare, simple as that... I completely agree that we aren't just starting over right now and I honestly believe the ONLY way Martin gets dealt is in a package for a for surefire super star. Martin, Lowry and Patterson aren't going anywhere unless a superstar is coming back in return.
yo, LTF, you know why it doesn´t make absolutely no sense (right now) to trade Martin for the #2 pick (ignoring the fact that he is a stud, entering his prime, with a great contract)???? BECAUSE Derrick Williams is a PF in a SF body. If he plays the PF in the NBA he will be average, and there is no sign (besides his natural gifts of length and quickness for the position) that he is an improved perimeter player to play the SF every day in the NBA. Meaning DW is not a normal draft gamble, he is an even bigger gamble then normal because of his transition to another position, and we know how that can change the perception people have about ballers. You know why Indiana will probably offer Granger for that pick??? Because they will play him at the 4, playing Paul George at the 3, and that will be a huge mistake, because at the 4 DW hustle and quickness will help him, but he will never be special. And Kanter at the #2 is a reach, maybe just a one spot reach, but when the difference between the 2 top prospects and the 3rd one is so big, picking Kanter at the 2 spot makes no sense. I love generic posts saying: "How can you not trade Martin for a 2nd pick" ignoring the prospects that are available, and the huge gambles (not normal draft gambles) we would take with A 2ND PICK, NOT A 2ND ROUND PICK. and by the way LEE >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin Only on clutchfans PeAcE
Does anyone think that the Cavs will give us the #4 pick for a package centered around Lowry? Lets say Lowry and Bud + the #23 pick for #4. That way they could use their 1st pick on D. Williams. As we all know they were pretty big on Lowry last summer.
Nobody is ignoring what prospects are available at the #2 pick. What you stated was your opinion of Derrick Williams' NBA future. I respect your opinion. Hopefully, you can also respect the fact that several high ranking NBA scouts disagree with you and feel that Derrick Williams has star potential. This has been called the "two player draft" because people feel that only Kyrie and Williams have true franchise player potential. You are entitled to your belief about William's game, but hopefully you can also recognize that several people disagree with your assessment. And nobody has said that Courtney Lee is better than Kevin Martin. Please read more carefully. You are a true fan, but your fandom blinds you from reality.
Exactly. Martin is too valuable to move just for a rookie who isn't really a sure thing. He should hold onto Martin and keep him as a valuable part of the team or package him later for a true superstar. Morey understands the value of being patient. There is no reason he has to trade Martin NOW when better deals may be available later.
At the 3 spot, and I agree with that, not at the 4, IMO. And because of that "huge gamble" of waiting for him to flourish at the 3 spot is the reason why, a simple Martin for the 2nd pick can´t be summarized by "Martin is not a star and can´t play D" like people are doing. I respect everyone, and I trust DM to evaluate what can this kid do at the 3 spot in the future, pretty sure he know what his ceiling is at the 4 in the NBA. PeAcE
I am sure he does. But I wouldn't doubt that he second guesses whether he should have traded Brooks earlier before his value plummeted. No one can predict when the next freak injury will happen. Given Martin's history, it might be better to be safe than sorry. If he gets injured again, his value might be affected permanently, fairly or unfairly.
I don't understand when people use this argument. Several people were branded "blind fans" when they wanted lowry to start over brooks, and it turns out those "blind fans" had a bit more foresight than brooks proponents thought. You agree or disagree with my opinion, but I think it should be left at that. We obviously disagree on Martins value, replace-ability, longevity and on the reliability for even a pick as high as #2 actually turning out to be a star player. We are all fans, some may choose to over value players because they are on our team, but I'm not one of them. If you disagree, then disagree, but don't say I'm wrong because I'm a fan of the team, it just doesn't make much sense.
