Sadly, the primary benefit of moving Martin is not this years pick, but intentionally making the team worse for next year's draft. As someone said, it's the Ray Allen for Jeff Green scenario. Pretty messed up system the NBA has that encourages a team to make themselves worse in the short term. Not sure what the alternative is.
I don't think losing Kevin is all that bad, sure you lose a bit of scoring, but Courtney Lee is a much better defender, the team might actually be BETTER overall with Lee than Martin playing. And by the time the Rox start to contend KMart will be a much lessor player, and his injury history has to be a bit scary for some, it is for me. DD
Kevin Martin had a great season last year and i think we all agree he does what he does very well. But he was brought here to be a sidekick for Yao - that's (probably) over now. He was brought here to play for rick Adelman - over now. Brought here to compete for a championship in the next 2-3 years (his prime) - over now. i think 2 of those 3 points apply to luis scola as well. Martin's stated he doesn't want to be part of another rebuilding process (can't blame him) and when we fired Adelman i think that's exactly what we committed to. i think the mindset is: We bought a lot of 2009 lottery picks and next year we're going to play them, playoffs be damned. Martin's a good scorer and i believe, a good value for his contract. But he's no longer a good fit for our team, nor are we a good fit for him.
Isn't this a bit of an understatement? The team had the 4rth best offense while having a starting 5 that included Chuck Hayes and Shane Battier. Later on when Brooks got traded the offense became 1st. A TS% of 0.600 isn't just a bit of scoring. That's like saying Orlando losing DH would be like losing a couple of blocks.
Also not pointing to DD specifically, but a lot of poster seem to think that just because Lee is the more balanced player he's automatically the better player. There's a reason why KM started and Lee came off the bench folks, KM is the better overall player simply because of how good he is on offense.
Why do you insist on the (not so subtle) martin hate? As you may or may not be aware, Kevin has only very recently turned 28 which in basketball terms means he is ENTERING his basketball Prime.The best of K.Mart is still to come - hence why the concept of 'selling high' has always seemed ridiculous to me. Futhermore, did you know that Kevin only started playing heavy mintues 3 years into his 8 year career? Kevin has about as little mileage as you could possibly hope for with a player of his calibre and experience. In addition you describe Martin's injury history as "scary". Without looking up the specifics, i can briefly remember them as being: Groin, Ankle, Ankle (reagrvated in 2008), then shoulder. I look through that list and i see nothing even close to being scary (Knee, back etc). Even Morey himself has described them as 'freak' incidents. Tl;DR - Kevin martin will be around for a long, long time.
Finally, a voice of reason! What makes everyone think we are entering a rebuilding stage just because Adelman is gone? We may be getting a new coach, but we will still have the same team. A team that was in need of an inside presence and more perimeter defense. Morey has been rebuilding on the fly while keeping this team competitive the whole time. I don't think he sees it as most of you all do. No need to trade away the bulk of our scoring for a pick in a so-called weak draft( btw, i disagree about it being a weak draft ). Morey did well last season with the 14th pick. There is no reason to think that he won't do it again.
Nobody is offering Granger for Martin. Indiana would want picks, and at least Lowry or Patterson and Budinger.
That was not my point however, and no one is disputing that. I was saying the overall TEAM might be better with Lee starting instead of Kmart, shots would be more widely distributed, and the defense would be much better. The question about Kevin is not his efficiency on offense, it is his injury history, and lack of defense, and the need for this team to have a lead dog. Not to mention Kmart thrives in an Adelman read and react offense, who knows what the new coach will bring in, but I suspect it will have somewhat of a negative impact on his stats, thus lowering his overall value as a trade chip. The time to sell high is when you are not contending, and IMO, that is now. Kevin is not someone that will lead a team anywhere, but he may be able to net you a guy who can do that in the draft, those are the kinds of swings for the fences the Rockets need to take these days, IMO. DD
Got to stop you right there DD. Shots would be more evenly distributed, but that isn't a good thing when Kevin Martin is in your line-up. Theoretically your team would score the most points if the player with the highest percentage took every shot in the game for his team. Obviously that doesn't work in practicality because the defense would adjust quickly, but you still want Kevin Martin to get as many shots as possible, simply because he's the most efficient scoring option on our team.
Only because of his free throw %, he is not the most efficient shooter on the team. Look, I don't hate KMart, I wanted him here for years, but now that we are in full on rebuild, get a superstar mode, I want the team to take some swings at those types of players. Kevin is a nice complimentary player who will get his, and give up nearly the same on the other end.....same with Luis..... Time for the team to trade WHOMEVER they need to, in order to get better......team over players, IMO. DD
I really don't think the defense would be that much better with Lee playing. I'd put perimeter defense a distant third behind team defense (rotation/switching, etc.) and interior defense. Perimeter defense is overrated. Not to mention length is still a valuable thing even for perimeter defense, since it helps to challenge shots, reach into passing lanes, etc...neither of which Lee can do. Also, Lee cannot make plays himself. You'd be putting even more pressure on Lowry to do everything on offense. I just don't see him as a starter unless he is surrounded by other playmakers (like when he was on Orlando or if he went to the Bulls).
just a thought since its being discussed...... K.Martin for Jeff Green/A.Bradley........slighty lopsided depending on how you look at it but overall fair.
Martin and Lee both had the same defensive impact on the floor this year, about 109 points given up per 100 possessions. Martin is underrated on D and Lee is overrated. And most volume scorers have low non-FT shooting numbers, Martin was better from the field than Durant and Kobe and Melo this year.
Better than what? We already had the best offense with Kmart last season after Brooks got traded away. How are supposed to surpass that mark if you replace Kmart with an inferior offensive talent? Just because the shots are more distributed doesn't mean the offense is better, would the heat be better if the shots moved away from their big 3 and into Haslem, Chalmers, Big Z and Miller? You want the ball in the hands of your most effective players, and on our team that's Kmart. Also KM had the least amount of shots among the 20+ scorers the league, he's as anti-ballhog as you can get. Calling him a ballhog when he's taking the least amount of shots for his scoring bracket is ridiculous. I'm with you with trading players to get better players, isn't that what DM did when he traded fan fav Landry for KM? But you're talking about trading KM for a "wild swing", that'd be like selling your house to buy lottery tickets. KM has turned out to be a player that's better than 90% of NBA players in the league, what are the chances your unknown guy surpasses him? I'd say that's pretty small, unless that kid has Lebron or Durant-like can't miss label on him you don't do that trade.
And can we please stop comparing one of the worst teams in the league trading away a star past his prime to a winning team trading away a star entering his prime? The quality of discussion/examples on this board has gone down bigtime when things like these are considered equal.
Why would any team trade the chance at a Lebron or Durant-like can't miss kid for Kevin Martin? The only reason any of us are even discussing Martin for #2 pick this year is because there are no Lebron or Durant like kids in the draft, so we might actually have a shot. You won't be able to trade Martin for a franchise player. However trading Martin opens the team up for a chance to draft one in 2012. With a pick they might lose outright if they keep the team together. For a rebuilding team, losing that pick would be much more detrimental to its ability to move forward than any extra wins they would've gotten with Martin. Win big vs. win now. I thought that was why we let go of Rick.
Why does everyone seem to think we're rebuilding when almost every contract on our payroll has been acquired within the last 18 months or so lol. Kinda weird if you ask me.
Because management has practically come out and said it. They let go of their HOF coach because they said the team is not championship caliber or anything close, and changes had to be made. Changes that the coach did not agree with. The front page article by Clutch concludes with "Win big vs Win now". What does that mean to you?
