About Sergio Llull...

so according to you, Llull will be not as good as Spanoulis (who is basically a 9th or 10th man on NBA rotation) but good enough to play in NBA?

 

I'm not going to clown you like the rest of the guys on here. You obviously watch the Euroleague a lot, which means you have more perspective than most posters here.

The problem is that the Euroleague and the NBA are completely different. Spanoulis would have been an OK NBA player on a bad team. He needs the ball in his hands to have an impact on the court, which is a luxury he would not be afforded on a good team with a star player. In the NBA he would look like Jason Kidd at 38 without the shooting ability that Kidd has developed.

Lull might be a good NBA player because to me it looks like he has better finishing and shooting ability than Spanoulis. If you aren't good enough to be a star player in the NBA with the ball in your hands for the majority of your team's possessions, (Spanoulis is not at this level) then you better be able to finish a play from any place on the court at an above average level. This is what makes guys like Lull and Rubio NBA players and Spanoulis not an NBA player. They are good at being role players in the NBA. Spanoulis can only play like a star player, but he is not a star player in the NBA.

All this is not really an indictment of Euroleague or your fan scouting. You just need to frame your commentary around how a player would fit into the NBA rather than how a player performs in the Euroleague. For better or worse, the NBA is a star's league. Players with elite athleticism are rewarded with trips to the free throw line and lax rules around how they handle the ball. For these reasons even an elite player from Europe like Dirk will probably never win a title as a lead guy. He is an elite finisher from anywhere outside of 2 feet, but he is not athletic enough to abuse the NBA rules like Wade, James, Kobe, etc.

 

Spanoulis was less of a lock-down defender and more of a run-into defender.

Wait... Spanoulis played in the NBA?!? When was that??

I recall him appearing in a handful of games for the Rockets, but don't remember him ever really playing. At least not in any meaningful way.

 

Spanoulis needs the ball in his hands less than Llull does to be effective. Spanoulis can play off the ball and often does. Llull usually has the ball in his hands whenever he is on the court and needs to. He is a good spot up shooter though. Spanoulis is a better shooter, with more range than Llull.

Spanoulis is a bit more athletic than Llull is, although Llull does jump higher. Spanoulis is quicker and faster than Llull. Llull has very slow lateral movement on defense and cannot defend point guards effectively in Euroleague. Spanoulis can defend NBA and Euroleague point guards.

Spanoulis lead the Euroleague in fouls drawn ->

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics/individual/average?topic=Season_E2010&category=FoulsDrawn

and in free throws made ->

http://www.euroleague.net/main/stat...ge?topic=Season_E2010&category=FreeThrowsMade

and free throws attempted ->

http://www.euroleague.net/main/stat...pic=Season_E2010&category=FreeThrowsAttempted


In fact, he was one of the most effective players the Rockets had at drawing fouls and getting to the line also. Keep in mind that is getting to the foul line in a league (Euroleague) that allows hand-checking, that allows a true 100% pure zone defense (the NBA does not) and that allows much more physical play and contact than the NBA does as the refs call the game about 1/5 as tight as they call NBA games. And the court is shorter and narrower and the defenders are closer because the 3 point line is closer.

Add in to that that because of the pure zone, most teams pack to 6-10 to 7-0 or taller defenders in the lane at all times (yes, the Euroleague players are the same height as NBA players - it is a pure myth that they are shorter and is factually untrue)..........

For a 6-3 point guard (Spanoulis isn't 6-4 like the NBA claimed) to do that is incredibly rare. Tony Parker could not get to the line like that in the Euroleague, where in addition to all those other things, the average point guard is a lot bigger than the average point guard in the NBA is.

Not a single player in Euroleague can get to the foul line like Spanoulis can, not even any centers. Llull has nowhere near that ability to get into the lane and get to the rim like Spanoulis does to be completely truthful about it. That is a skill and talent that is totally unique to Spanoulis ans would translate like gang busters to the NBA, where the court is bigger, the defenders are further away from the offensive players, there is more spacing, there is the no hand-check rule, and where instead of 2 7 footers always being standing all game long in the middle of the lane (Euroelague) there is usually a clear cut open path to the rim.

In Euroleague, you are allowed to hit the point guard, hip check him, put a shoulder in him, set moving screens and moving picks on him, every sinle time he comes off a pick on the pick and roll. In the NBA that is an automatic foul. Put Spanoulis at the top of the key, set one pick for him in the NBA and he will be at the foul line just as easily and quickly as Derrick Rose and Dwyane Wade. That is why Spanoulis scored 22 points with Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich guarding him at the 2006 FIBA World Championship. That is why Spanoulis scored 14 points with Kobe Bryant guarding him one to one, or with Chris Paul and Deron Williams trapping him in a double team at the 2008 Olympics.

During games with a smaller court, less spacing, a pure zone defense allowed and where the NBA players can hand check and play MUCH more physical and get away with MUCH more from the refs than they ever could in any NBA game. Spanoulis could light up an average NBA regular season game, where the defense is very poor, the reffing is very tight, and the level of players is overall mostly average. IF he played for any slightly normal NBA coach.

Llull isn't in that level of player and never will be.

If you want to know how good Llull/Spanoulis would be in the NBA - Llull is like I said, something in the level of Dragic, but a definite better shooter and a definite much worse defender.

Spanoulis is more than capable of being a starting point guard in the NBA (in fact with absolute ease). He is a much better player than Dragic is. The only reason Rockets fans don't like Spanoulis is because Van Gundy hated him and because he refused to play in the NBA again.

Navarro.........he would be a much better NBA player than Scola is IMHO if he was given a proper chance by an NBA team, something the Grizzlies did not do. Still, in 30 games as a starter in the NBA, he averaged 13.1 PPG in 33.1 MPG.

-> http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/1778/juan-carlos-navarro

And that was a rookie that was adjusting to a whole different league, rules, players, and different reffing style. And Navarro is a much better player now than he was then. Given time, Navarro would be a big time NBA scorer. I assure you that Llull will never come close to being as good as these guys are.

Llull can certainly be a good NBA player, but he is not near the level of guys like Spanoulis and Navarro - neither in the NBA, FIBA, Olympics, Euroleague - whatever the competition is.........those guys are much better players than Llull or Dragic.

It is obvious that NBA fans in general have no clue at all as to how good players like Spanoulis and Navarro are. They are much better than the vast majority of American players. There seems to be a very warped view of European players in general by most American NBA fans.

If you put Spanoulis in the starting lineup and gave him a fair chance, he would easily be a better player than Lowry is.

The NBA is literally obsessed with Ricky Rubio, and yet guys like Navarro and Spanoulis are several levels more talented than him, and Rubio will never be as good as they are. They would be much better NBA players than Rubio could ever be if they were given a good opportunity by an NBA team, something they did not get in their time in the NBA.

And thank you for responding normally to my posts. It is good to be able to have an actual basketball conversation and not just be trolled.

 

Not true! We hated him for one reason only: Because he SUCKED.

Van Gundy also hated him because he sucked.

And I think I can speak for ALL NBA fans when I say we LOVED his decision not to play in the NBA again.

Okay, dude, now you're WAY beyond comical. Two guys who couldn't cut it in the NBA are now "better than the vast majority of American players"? I guess if you're counting middle school and high school kids. :grin::grin:

 

KillBillPana in the house?

 

Im really starting to dislike ohmms BOLD statements. Dude you think you know everything, truth is nobody knows what can happen. You may have seen more european basketball than others but honestly your just like a big time college bball fan who thinks he knows it all and gives his 2 sense on every player and their future in the league, the difference is that you do this with overseas ball and not many can argue facts against you. Maybe i Wouldn't mind so much if you said "I think" before all your Statements or say "in my opinion" more often but at the end of the day, you don't know shiet.

oh and btw Jan Ducking vesely is a very athletic player. A superb athlete especially overseas. But saying he is more athletic than a blake griffin is just stupid. to be 100% honest I think anyone 6'11 with a light agile body like vesely SHOULD be dunking like that.

 

Spurstalk banned him. As long people reply to his craziness he'll keep on posting.

 

Llull is suck, he will not be a NBA player

 

I think we should just forget about this guy. You never hear about him unless someone bumps this thread.

 

For what its worth, Sergio Lull made the All-Euroleague second team.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213562/Diamantidis_Navarro_Headline_All_Euroleague_First_Team

 

To be perfectly honest, he was the one guy on the team that absolutely did not deserve it. Even at the Spanish League forums all but a couple people said he did not deserve it and most even thought he was average this year.

He really is a talented player. Very talented. But that award implies he is a top 10 player in the Euroleague and the truth is that he MIGHT be a top 10 just at his position, MAYBE.

He has some work to do. But he could definitely be a very good 6th man scorer of the bench type of player at SG. Like a Ben Gordon type of player.

 

I watched tree games in the Euroleague final four.

Llull has talent. He's fast, has great energy, loves the big moments. I hope he'll play as a Rockets in the future.

But Lior Eliyahu was a big disappointment for me. He's not better than 2-3 years ago. I don't think he'll develop himself to the NBA level.

 

LOL you mad cause even Euroleague ranked him with Spanoulis. Which you still can't seem to comprehend.

Why couldn't Spanoulis be on a Dwayne Wade level when he played for the NBA? But he couldn't make it in the NBA so now he must be on a Wade level? If he was on Wade's level then why would the Spurs release him even though they have superb international scouts

If he made the second team all euroleague and Navarro made first team - then Navarro = Jordon?

 

Yes, you don't know a thing about the game of basketball, unless it is Houston Rockets games. You are clearly an NBA only fan and have a severe deficit of even basic basketball knowledge.

 

V-Span was Rafer Alston's backup for a short while, and there was an EXTREME drop-off when he came in the game. The speed of the NBA caused a plethora of airballs and turnovers. He was awful, he was god awful.

Again, RAFER ALSTON...



Juan Carlos Navarro also "sucked ass".


He could not defend a pole, being a 6-3 PG that could not play PG and could not defend SG's.

Shot 40% from the field and 36% from 3 in 26 minutes a game. That is slightly better than Trevor Ariza's shooting.

 

Your reading comprehension sucks. He says Navarro could be better than Scola. I am not sure he is right but Scola is not as good as we give him credit for so that is not a stretch. Also the biggest problem Spanoulis had in the NBA was Van Dummy. Make no mistake about it he never wanted Spanoulis on the team. Spanoulis was a CD signing and Van Gundy detested anything CD did. I happen to like Van Gundy the announcer and as a Houstonian but Van Gundy the Rockets coach sucked big time. And reading this just reminds me how much I disliked him as a coach. Anybody who watched Vspan play saw he had talent. Anybody who watched how Van Gundy used him could see he did not want the kid to showcase it.

I still don't get how stupid people can be to think that this was all about Vspan sucking. Vspan didn't play enough to know that. Look how bad Budinger played this year before he started to turn it around. Vspan didn't get a fraction of that time under Van Dummy. Bud had a coach who believed in him. Vspan had a moron coach. And there are still idiots on this board who want him back. I said it back then and I'll repeat it now. Firing Rudy and replacing him with Van Gundy was the single biggest mistake I have ever seen this franchise make.