that kind of impatience keeps good tall talent from being on this team. Bynum and McGee were both really young and grew into their NBA bodies. Sometimes it worth it to draft a you guy who will grow into his body. BTW, Jonas will be a top 10 pick regardless. Maybe even top 5.
I figured that you weren't talking about the Rockets specifically. There are big differences between Jonas and Nogueira. Nogueira is playing in a -very- minor spanish league. Valanciunas is playing at Euroleague level (that's very probably a higher level than the college level, because of the size, age, experience and physical toughness of the opponents). Believe me, I like Biyombo and Vesely (a lot) and I wouldn't say what I said if I didn't know Jonas. He's not ready physically, that's obvious, but overall he's more ready than Hill or Thabeet (and I consider them still interesting projects). He's mentally ready, he's tactically ready, he's good already. Beyond that (now Morey's words) with a rookie you try to select thinking on the 3rd-4th year, not the 1st one. I see my statement ("prefer Jonas to Biyombo and Vesely") perfectly debatable, we're talking about 3 very good NBA prospects, but as I've said, I've known Jonas well for years and would not be saying this without a basis behind. Of course I still can be wrong, and equally would be more than happy seeing Vesely/Biyombo in a Rockets uniform.
I can't say the same about the other lithuanian, Motiejunas, but he's probably the most talented of the 4 players. However, I would take the other 3 before him.
What you call impatience is actually a thing called odds. The odds are much higher that these skinny kids max out as journeyman bigs in the NBA then for them to develop into a top 10 NBA big. The reason I'm for Kanter and Biyomba is they've already shown a level of physical and skill maturity. In other words, they already got game. Jonas.....may turn out to be the best of them all..........in 4 years. But the odds are much greater that he turns into a very pedestrian player. And 4 years....is a generation in the NBA.
First of all, I agree that those "breakdown videos" are a total joke. Anyway, you overrate Valanciunas. He has the size and length and he is a really good rebounder. But his defense is atrocious. He can't guard anyone in the Euroleague. He could barely stay on the court because he was abused and pushed around so bad by opposing centers in the Euroleague. Mainly, the only reason he even played at all was because the management kept telling the coaches to play him to market him to other European teams, in hopes they could get a big buyout for him. He is like Rubio. Mostly pure hype and no substance at this time. A player rated almost solely for play as a youth level player, but that is barely at best average (I am being generous) in the Euroleague. He is a project and not much more than that right now. Granted, I think he is much better than Rubio is and I like him as a player. He will be pretty good, but Vesely could start at SF for the Rockets immediately. Really, no comparison at all between the two. Valanciunas is one of those guys that is just like drafting an American high school player that is rated because he is big and played well at the youth level. It could be years before he is really ready. If he was playing in a big European club (even in Zalgiris if they were not trying to showcase him), he would barely even see the court. I can't imagine him even playing in some of the better Euroleague teams at all. I like Valanciunas, he will be a good player and I have no doubt about it, but he is way too young to be useful at this point. He was like a little kid being thrown around by grown men during Euroleague play.
You do realize that Biyombo was an average (at best) level player for a mid-level ACB (Spanish League which is well below Euroleague level) team right? Yet you seem to be all over him? How is it that an average player, for a mid-level, second tier (to Euroleague) European competition is such a cannot miss for you? I like guys that block shots and defend. I have nothing against Biyombo, but you do not seem to apply anything but double standards when you rate him. It is doubtful if Biyombo would even play if he was in a good Euroleague team. He could just as easily spend 2 years in the D-League as anyone else. Macvan dominated the Nike Hoops Summit way more than Biyombo did and Macvan could barely even get on the floor when he went to play at the Euroleague level. I like Macvan. He would be a good 2nd round pick. He's good. But he dominated the Nike Hoops Summit more than Biyombo did and once he made that first jump to the Euroleague level, he was lucky to even get playing time. Biyombo would in all likelihood be riding the pine the majority of the time in any strong Euroleague team. Again, I am not saying he would be a bad pick, because he has good potential. But Biyombo is in the same exact class as Valanciunas in terms of being a guy that might go straight to D-League if you draft him. No difference at all, except that he might actually be a lot older.
There's a huge difference in their bodies and how they use them. Biyomba may never be a star but he'll be a good championship rotation big. He's got the body, the fast-twitch reaction, and the drive. He'll be a good NBA player.
Plan A: Trade our way up and try for Biyombo and Leonard. If Fails Plan B: Trade our way into getting Noguiera and Singleton. Best case scenario: If Miller/Hill/Bud/T-Will were used for the trades and replaced by all 4 in Plan A&B. Lowry/Dragic Martin/Lee Leonard/Singleton Patterson/Hayes/ Biyombo/Noguiera/YAO?
Niiiiice! Having Martin surrounded by all defensive players and 2 more big men to work with. I know it's a dream scenario, but wow! Just wow!
And this prediction is based solely on his physical attributes right? I sure hope it is not based on him playing against high school kids at the Nike Hoops Summit. Like any athletic freak that lacks basketball ability, Biyombo could be nothing more than a D-League player. The Cavs drafted Christian Heyenga who is about the same story as Biyombo. From Africa, was picked up by a mid-level Spanish club, sent to their developmental system.........playing in a second division club, to call ups to the senior club. Is an average back up player at that level, or worse. Doubts about the age, etc. Basically, a guy that started playing basketball late, is raw, lacks development in the game, but is an athletic freak. Many similarities between the two. Well, Heyenga has not exactly torn up the NBA. And that was after he stayed in Spain after being drafted for more development. Athletic ability is not enough to guarantee anything for guys that are just learning basketball. You seem to be automatically equating Biyombo to someone like Ibaka. But how is there any guarantee of this? There isn't. There is no more a guarantee of him being good than for Valanciunas at all. There is nothing but a 6-9 guy that is very athletic and long. For a list of such "can't miss Africans" in recent years just look at all of the French players that have been first round picks in recent years and never done a thing. They come from Africa, get "discovered", go to a French club for development then the NBA goes nuts over them. Because they dominate some high school kids at some youth camp. Their size and length and athletic ability is "extremely intriguing" to the NBA......... The fact that they are average or worse players in their domestic league never even seems to be considered. When the players bust the excuse of the NBA sides is that "Euros just are not as good". When the same players were never even good in France either. Every single draft there is a Biyombo that these NBA "experts" go nuts over, based solely on physicals and that he is an "unknown". Biyombo might be great and he might be a total bust. His bust factor is easily as high as that of Valanciunas.
Bismack has intangibles and work ethic that have been likened to Kevin Garnett. His backline communication and defensive rotations are unbelievable. NBA scouts, as usual, are right on the money. The Golden Rule: When all else fails, draft the young, athletic, ripped black guy...
NBA scouts are usually wrong. They miss on just about every draft pick. Why are they even considered as a legit source with their pathetic track record? Biyombo might be great. Sure he might. But to suggest that he can't be a bust is absolutely beyond ridiculous.
Yes, they are. There was this thing called slavery, where we literally bred Africans to be physically superior. You should check it out.
Why is it that most second rounders usually never make the league? (Because NBA scouts usually make the right picks in the first round) I agree, though, we royally screwed up in the "Spanoodle" draft...
Interesting... Just because Jan looks like Ryan Bowen mixed with Joe Alexander when he throws down goofy, albeit impressive dunks, doesn't equal racism. And the fact that African Americans are generally more athletic is absolutely historical. Again, they were bred by ignorant slavemasters for a sole purpose, to do physical labor.
I thought Ibaka was a player when he was drafted too. In fact, I was hoping the Rockets would get him. And really all that was available on him was footage in ratty gyms in Africa playing against mostly nobodies. But he had footwork and you could see basetball skill oozing from him on top of his obvious athleticism. And no, I'm not a racist. Ibaka was not American born and bred. He is black. And athleticism doesn't mean everything. It's athleticism combined with basketball skill combined with basketball brain combined with drive and work ethic. Enes Kanter is white. But he's got an NBA body. He's big, bulky, strong. And he's got skills galore, already developed. He appears to have some semblance of drive. I can't get a handle on his bball iq just yet, as far as how advanced his iq can be honed to different defenses and offenses in the NBA. But it's obvious to me that he can come in and play in the NBA. It's obvious to me that Biyombo can come in and play in the NBA. He's got the body,the work ethic, and you can see the quick light footwork. He's got potential to be developed and he's got the ability to play and contribute while he developing and not be a total zero forcing his team to play 4 on 5 while he is in there. On the other hand, kids like the Jonas kid and the Noguiera are severely underdeveloped. Noguiera, to go along with a severely underdeveloped body, is very tentative on the floor. He won't see minutes in the NBA this season unless he is playing for a lottery team determined to go back to the lottery again. It's gonna take him a couple years working with that body to add any sort of weight that could possibly keep him on the floor for more than 4 minutes. Does he have some skills? Probably. Any 7 footer standing around the bball court shooting 1000 hook shots will develop some skill. But it's not usable skill because his body is severly underdeveloped. Jonas, his body may be slightly more developed than Noguiera but not much and he does not have an outstanding skill or skills that stick out to you when you watch him. I don't care who he's playing against. Now drop all the stupid racist bullcrap and consider what makes a player a player. And then consider our team and it's needs. Like I said, we are much closer to the top than the bottom. And we're not riverboat gamblers throwing our lot to a pile of underdeveloped 19 and 20 y/o guys. We're trying to add to what we've got. We don't have 4 or 5 years to see what Jonas or Noguiera will become. We need players that have NOW potential. In other words, their bodies scream they are ready now, and they have some proven basketball skills, and we don't know what they can become ultimately but there is room for improvement. Please stop with the stupid racist bullcrap.
It's beyond ridiculous that you would even mention Biyombo and bust in the same sentence. Trust me, he will not be a bust.
Jo, I see that you keep drawing comparisons between Jonas and Nogueira... It's OK, but I tell you that they have nothing to do, Nogueira is absolutely nothing right now at elite level, nothing. So there are like 3 echelons in between the two. You said you don't care who they're playing against, and that's the key. Obviously it's not the same the Euroleague than the 3rd-4th Spanish league (I've almost played here). It was already wirtten at the Biyombo thread. Eyenga had any kind of impact on his team, he basically played some minutes because his team had nothing more to put on the court. He had physical potential and they thought that there was a good opportunity to put him on the court and start developing him. But he had no impact on the games. Biyombo on the other hand leads the league in blocks per game playing 17 minutes. He also leads the league at rebounds per 40 minutes. In other words, Eyenga was a scrub, while Biyombo has been one of the better defenders in the league. The theoretical MIP (there with Mirotic). Biyombo's case is very similar to Ibaka's case, being even a little more shocking, because Ibaka came from the LEB league (2nd Spanish league, was already very known in Spain) and Bismack came practically from nowhere (the Yemeni league, I think). He has performed like Ibaka being a year younger. With no intermediate step, with 0 experience at elite level, from Yemen to the ACB.
anchel, I only threw jonas and nogueira together to illustrate both guys ain't ready. It is obvious to me that Jonas is far advanced over Nogueira. I wouldn't use any first round pick on Nogueira, maybe a second. If I were a lottery team rebuilding from scratch and Kyrie, Williams, Kanter, Biyombo, and Vesely were off the board already, I'd seriously consider taking Jonas or at least looking at favorable trades for my pick for some other team wanting to jump up and take him. My point is and remains, Jonas and Nogueira are not ready to play. The big guys in this draft that can play tomorrow in the NBA are Kanter and Biyombo. Beyond that, you may be able to get something out of that big Jordan Williams kid or Keith Benson. I'd be tempted to take either one of those guys if they are hanging around in the second round. And I expect one of them to sneak into the first round.
