I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant was I wouldn't trade Martin right now for the #_ pick in the 2012 draft. I would prefer Morey to have the player zeroed in if Martin is going to be traded. If Morey believes on draft night that a certain player will be our next superstar and martin being moved is necessary to get the deal done than I can get on board with the idea. But trading for an arbitrary pick shouldn't be considered in my opinion.
I can get behind that -- I wouldn't trade Martin without some assurances that it would be a high draft pick. In other words, the most opportune time would be during the draft, using Martin as an asset to move up several slots.
sorry forgot to add... If Thabeet and Terrence Williams don't sell their souls to the devil for a basketball brain and are getting significant playing time next season we will have no problem sucking just as bad as the kings when martin was with them.
I wince everytime someone calls Kevin Martin a third or fourth option. This is a player who can score 30+ on any given night ... and he is a third or fourth option. Give me a break. I'd trade Martin for a franchise center or a franchise player who could give us almost as many points and better defense, but what player is that? Dwight Howard or Chris Paul or Dwayne Wade? We've already had our Dream come true.
First off, he capitalized Dream, hint hint. Secondly, ironic that you don't like KM's clutch performance even though he's a better clutch performer than your boy Rudy Gay. Better points/48, better TS%. Gay isn't even in KM's league during crunch time, and that's saying something.
Im wit you...They praise him as a scorer then say he's a 3rd or 4th option....Doesnt make sense that a natural 20+ scorer be considered a 3rd option.....unless he played for the Heat
Its because 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th option has no real meaning. Its basketball buzzwords used when the speaker doesnt form thier argument well.
Hi boxscore surfer: Kevin Martin is no way, no how, more clutch than Rudy Gay. I'm not going to waste my time posting Rudy Gay buzzer beaters. That's the problem with this new generation of stat geeks -- you think numbers tell you everything and never watch the actual games. This isn't baseball -- some players are more clutch than others. Rudy Gay has the clutch gene, Kevin Martin does not. If you had 10 seconds left in the game and needed a basket, you'd probably look at the numbers and give the ball to Martin over Gay. Anyone who watches both players would easily pick Gay -- and I stress easily. This isn't even a debate, Martin doesn't come close to matching Gay when the game's on the line. Of course, you'd never know that because you spend your time on basketball-reference instead of watching games. Oh well -- it's a shame, because you'd realize that Lowry took the majority of our last-second shots, not Martin. @lars -- The "#" option refers to their pecking order on the team. Whether they're the best player on the team (#1) or second best (#2). Kevin Martin is not capable of being the second best player ("#2") on championship contender. Let me know if I can help you out with anything else.
Whatever man, we are going to continue to tread the mediocrity treadmill until we get some closers in here. Role players are fine and dandy but we need to tank and rebuild in order to get a real superstar.
I don't see how Lowry comes into this, I never said Martin was better than Lowry, I even implied that he was not very clutch if you notice. And hate to break it to ya but facts matter more than your flawed perceptions or buzzer beater highlight reels. If Martin is scared of clutch time then Gay must pee his pants, judging by his performance.
:grin: You don't watch much basketball, I get it. It's cool, I bet basketball-reference is more exciting than live games. If Lowry is taking all of our last second shots, how can we quantify Martin's "clutch" stats? Or are you looking at a flawed stat that takes into account the last five minutes? A stat that's bolstered by Martin being the best FT% shooter on our team and thus getting more opportunities to score more points in close games when other teams foul? Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh well. Pssst: Those same flawed 5-minute stats show Martin shoots 38% from the field and 23% from downtown in the last five minutes. Gay shoots 47% from the field and 30% from downtown in the last five minutes. Did I just blow your mind?
Oh you're one of those casual fans that thinks last second shots matter more than a shot in a tie game with 2 mins left because you see them on ESPN more. It's cool, I get it, most people are like you. Oh and Martin averages more FGAs in clutch time than Gay because Gay is scared. Hell even Scola does.
@ your edit, of course he shoots better. Martin, like all other good scorers, gets fouled a lot because he's such a good scorer. Nobody is afraid of pee-pants Gay which is why he barely ever gets fouled(lol @ less than 7 FTs per 48) and people play off of him. He would be a bench player if he DIDN'T have a decent FG% with those circumstances.
I always enjoy watching someone cling to a failed argument. They usually make it worse.. and you have delivered, thank you! FGA? LOL! Thanks for the laugh. You do realize that getting fouled means your FGA doesn't count, right? And that if you get fouled AND make it, it DOES count as a FGA and FGM? In other words, getting fouled while shooting can do nothing but IMPROVE your FG%. So arguing that Martin doesn't shoot better than Gay in the clutch because he gets fouled is incredibly stupid.. you know that, right? ... right?
This argument is hilarious. After watching Martin pass up shots, fumble the ball, camp the corner and attempt flops in crunch time all season, people still think he more clutch than Rudy Gay? Gay has hit more game winners this season than Martin has in his career. Then again, i don't really care much for stats; I watch the games :grin:
Oh my, Ashish was owned there, I am very shocked by this from fan who spends much of free time talking about basketball. If you are constantly throw sarcastic insult to poster you may want to have a simple knowledge first. I disagree with LTF’s idea that Kevin Martin is fourth option at best, but some of these personal attacks about “speaker does not form argument well” and “person who thinks rebuild through draft is best is idiot” are very uncalled for. LTF is good poster.
DG, you're making me blush. FWIW, I don't think they were personal attacks aside from a jab attempt from lars, but we've had many disagreements in the past so we're both used to it. I'm fine with people disagreeing, I enjoy talking things out -- mostly because I think you'll eventually see it my way
