remember when obama had a bunch of war protesters arrested a few months ago infront of the white house? if they could not protest infront of the white house than this group should not have been allowed to be there either. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...esters-in-Front-of-White-House-118324814.html
You fight a war with those who declare war on you. It's not our fault that the enemy doesn't wear standard uniforms. Does anyone know if any cars were over-turned and burned in these celebrations-- especially police cruisers?
I don't mind people celebrating. There are some things worth celebrating here. A lot of them, actually. I'm certain some people are celebrating for the wrong reasons, though. Bloodlust, patriotism, etc. This isn't a moment to celebrate America's greatness, or pat ourselves on the back. Killing somebody isn't a reason to celebrate, but saving countless lives, (hopefully) ending a very bloody era in history, and giving peace to the suffering and tormented absolutely is. I don't celebrate the fact that OBL was shot in the face, or lament his lack of suffering, or proper muslim burial, I have no desire to rub anything in his or anyone else's face. I celebrate the fact he is gone, and that we have, as human beings, shown that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated by civilized society.
I'm really, really tired of people here describing liberals as you just did. The overwhelming majority of liberals on this board, from what I have read, are thrilled that we killed the b*stard. I'm "liberal," and I couldn't be happier that we finally nailed him, and under the watch of a progressive Democrat who at least leans towards the liberal side of the political spectrum. I could write a list of progressive/liberal Democratic presidents who led this nation during wars and various conflicts, and made decisions that used our military for the national interest... Wilson, FDR, Truman, Jack Kennedy, LBJ, Clinton and, yes, Barack Obama, but it doesn't sound like you're really interested in actual history. Histrionics is apparently more your style. There are some members here who are disturbed by how this played out. I disagree with most of what they've said about it, but understand and respect where they are coming from. This is the sort of knee-jerk reaction from the Right Wing that makes them look foolish, with all due respect. If you still have a history book from high school or college, you might consider opening it up again and reading who actually led this nation during the violent episodes we were involved in during the 20th century. It could make for enlightening reading.
That is silly, and you know it. Act according to what the situation warrants, not according to what the enemy perceives/wants it to be. At the end of it all, intelligence and calculated action won the day, not bombs and battalions.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/bin-laden-again-unites-then-divides-u-europe-054218753.html Analysis: Bin Laden again unites, then divides, U.S. and Europe LONDON (Reuters) - When Osama bin Laden's men flew airliners into New York's World Trade Center 10 years ago, they drew an outpouring of solidarity from Europe, captured by a French newspaper under the headline "We are all Americans now." It didn't last. A decade of wars has followed that strained old alliances -- few in Paris will forget the U.S. jibes about "cheese-eating surrender monkeys." And now bin Laden's death, unarmed, at the hands of American troops has brought a new wave of contrasting emotional responses across the Atlantic. Jubilant Americans poured into Times Square to chant "USA, USA, USA!" and hit the Internet to snap up T-shirts reading "We Got Him" and "Hey Osama, Tell Hitler We Said Hello." Europeans, also targeted by al Qaeda, kept satisfaction more contained, even if tabloid headlines were no less triumphant. And, crucially, not a few began to question the legality and morality of the killing and the risk of revenge attacks. That attitude has simply outraged many Americans. When Tony Metcalf, the British editor-in-chief of the Metro newspapers in the United States, ran a Reuters story on European qualms over what a former German chancellor called a breach of international law, "we knew it would cause a reaction." Writing on his blog on Wednesday, Metcalf said: "Given the celebrations around the U.S. on Sunday evening, the objections from France, Germany, Spain and parts of the U.K. came as no surprise, and fitted neatly into many Americans' view of Europeans as a bunch of, well, cheese-eating surrender monkeys." A glance at Metro's comment thread shows near unanimity on the European criticism: "Arrogant, smug, thoughtless and thankless people," wrote LisaC in a less vitriolic post. SHARE VALUES, DIFFERING OUTLOOKS Undaunted, Metcalf continued to explain how Europeans admire American commitment to shared values of democracy and the rule of law but fear U.S. policy, particularly toward Muslims, risks harming those values and creating problems for the future. "Democratic states do not execute people without first going through the judicial process," he wrote. "If that process is circumvented, then you are no better than the terrorists." Is that harsh? Should I, a European, be sent back across the pond with mockery in my ears? You probably think so. "But I defy you to argue with that logic." Across the ocean, Americans living in Europe were also aware of the gulf in perceptions. Bernhard Warner, a social media entrepreneur and freelance journalist working in Rome, said European friends compared the sight of Americans "dancing in the street at the death of someone" with the scenes of jubilation from the Middle East after 9/11 that drew cries of barbarity from the United States: "I have family and friends back home who are euphoric and I have family and friends in Europe who don't understand the euphoria," Warner said. "There's a sense of being appalled." Californian Daniel Leraul, who works in Spain, said: "My European friends ... are very cynical about it. They don't agree with Obama's statement that justice was done." AMERICAN MARS, EUROPEAN VENUS There is no shortage of comment in Europe that would be at home in the U.S. media. Recalling New York and the 2005 London bombings, Britain's best-selling Sun headlined: "Bin Laden Unarmed -- Just like his 9/11 and 7/7 victims," echoing its sister paper the New York Post's "Got Him! Vengeance at Last." Writing in Germany's top-selling Bild, commentator Joerg Quoos slammed critics of center-right Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had welcomed the killing of bin Laden: "What chance did Osama's killers give the people in the World Trade Center, who were incinerated, atomized or jumped in panic from 100 floors up?" And in the country's business newspaper Handelsblatt, editor Gabor Steingart wrote: "Should we enjoy the murder of a human being? The short answer is: No. The somewhat longer answer: In this case, yes, because the violent death of Osama bin Laden is connected to hope. One death possibly helps prevent many. "American success excites and shames us Europeans. A continent that is equal to the population and economic power of the United States has not seen the will to defend itself, its values and its prosperity. The majority of Europeans, since the Germans are not alone, refuse to accept the central insights of this now 10-year struggle against international terrorism: This war is not the same kind of war we know from our history books." The questions in Europe contrast with a consensus in the United States. Some see that as due to different understandings of what bin Laden's killing may bring for the future. Others put it down to long-standing cultural differences. Some say Europeans, who typically scorn Americans' taste for the death penalty and have much lower levels of religious faith, also see a murkier world than one where good battles the "evil" which some Americans declared was their enemy after September 11. The European affairs correspondent of Britain's Economist weekly, writing in a blog, recalled a famous phrase from a 2002 research paper that highlighted Europe's hesitation to join U.S. military interventions after the attacks on the United States -- "Americans are from Mars and Europeans are from Venus." The columnist noted contrasting responses among journalists to news of bin Laden's death: "In Brussels ... reporters repeatedly tried to get the (European) Commission spokeswoman ... to denounce the raid as either an extrajudicial killing or an affront to Europe's opposition to the death penalty. "In Washington, by contrast, many wanted ... the White House counter-terrorism adviser to give the technicolor detail of the raid in Abbbotabad ... Plainly, Americans and Europeans -- or at least their journalists -- still inhabit different planets."
fixed it for you. ill just repost this... panetta did not claim that waterboarding led to the info - he just claimed that the people who gave up the info were at some point waterboarded. the media is obviously spinning those statements to appeal to all you torture-loving, unamerican pigs and helping you draw conclusions that are not there - but clearly he did not say that waterboarding directly led to the necessary intel. furthermore, since you take such stock in the opinions of leon panetta why dont you take a look at this quote from him... http://washingtonindependent.com/23821/panetta-not-a-torture-fan military and interrogation experts the world over have stated time and time again that torture is not an effective means of gathering info. it doesnt work...period. torture is and has been against u.s. law and is a crime punishable by death - bush had his lawyers change the definition of torture, but that doesnt make it legal or ethical.
i find nothing to celebrate b/c osama already won a long time ago - our economy is destroyed, most of the world hates us and we have become an orwellian police state.
Nah, we were supporting the HoS and paying them to ensure that every Saudi would be prevented from being an elected official. same crap with Egypt and Mubarak. quick question everyone---why do the terrorists hate us? "cause they hate our freedoms."
And Syria. And Bahrain. And Iraq (until the guy we were supporting did some things we did not like). And Iran (until we failed). Etc. Etc. Etc.
An orgasm is the release of tension. It makes us happy with endorphins. Ten years was a lot of foreplay.
Originally Posted by Kojirou that you weren't just intellectuals who look down on the common man Wow could you be more wrong there Orwell? Socialism is about spreading the wealth to the common man, Capitalism is about about allowing the exploitation of the common man and establishing an economic elite. If you hear the term intellectual elite, it is about people who cherish learning, thought change and advancement.
The outpouring of elation is about the validation of the self, just like any sports team or group you see yourself a part of. You, are the team; The Game is the tension, a successful outcome is the orgasm and validation is the afterglow of endorphins. In this case, terrorist have set up the game of tension and rightfully or wrongfully, the killing of Bin Laden is the victory (maybe just the game and not the season championship). You don't have to be a 99'er to be happy when (if) the Rockets win. And, 'they' hate us because their belief system is set up to revere piety. Conversely, that requires that a system that does not to defined as evil. Western society's existence is a challenge to their beliefs i e. that the Theocracy is supreme, that society requires a strict and unchanging order, that women are subservient to men etc etc. They in fact. probably know that in the long term, they will eventually lose to individual freedom (social entropy) so they fight in desperation. (it's also the same reason atheists get so much grief)
how sweet it is: --- The vindication of former President Bush By: Christopher Taylor 05/05/11 12:33 PM President Bush was reviled and hated at an almost unbelievable level while in office, with almost no accusation or conspiracy theory untried or unbelieved by the left. Every single action the man took was considered evil and horrible, every single event was an excuse to shower bitterness and spite toward the man and all he did. President Obama's career and political campaign for eight years was largely shaped by how he acted toward President George W. Bush. Now all that has changed. In one event, on May Day, the entire case against President Bush was demolished by one of his greatest critics: President Obama. Lets start with the invasion of Iraq, which was solidly opposed by the Democratic Party by 2004 when they realized they needed a tool to attack the president with for the elections. It was in Iraq, because of the US presence there, that a courier was captured, a courier that gave us key information that led to the location of Osama Bin Laden. Bush's decision to invade Iraq turned out to not be a distraction after all, but they key to getting Bin Laden. Guantanamo Bay, long decried by the left as a haven of human rights violations and extralegal activity, a place President Obama swore repeatedly to close down (and has not) was the location where information critical to the location and killing of Osama Bin Laden was uncovered. Instead of being a blight on America and the source of Osama's popularity, Gitmo became his doom. Other secret prisons, held up as proof of the sinister, awful nature of the Bush administration, were the site of other information needed to find Osama Bin Laden. For years, the left argued that the Bush administration and no other administration has ever used torture to get information from terrorists and terrorist suspects. They argued this was ineffective, and further that it was evil and something that America should never use. Several leading figures, including Leon Panetta, have noted that it was the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" long called "torture" by the left that got us information to find and kill Osama Bin Laden - techniques still in use by the Obama administration. Direct, targeted killings by military drones, bombs, and soldiers was condemned by the left during the Bush administration, but with a single stroke, the Obama administration reporting the use this tactic to end Osama Bin Laden showed the validity of the tactic. Not only that, but the Obama administration has long argued that this tactic is perfectly legal. Tho were previously attacked as "Dick Cheney's Assassination Squad." The left's A List talking heads such as Seymore Hersh, Keith Olbermann, Stephen Colbert, and Jon Stewart, among others all specifically attacked this team as an extra-legal tool used by the sinister Vice President Cheney to carry out a personal agenda. Now we find out that it was this very team which moved into place and carried out the mission against Osama Bin Laden. Patriotism, previously mocked and attacked as being crass, manipulative, and even a tool of the political opportunist is suddenly popular again on the left. When Osama Bin Laden was announced dead, the celebrations and patriotism began, with flag waving and chants of "USA! USA!" heard outside the White House. President Obama's passive "lead from behind" method of downplaying and reducing US leadership in the world was a direct reversal of President Bush. Bush was called a "cowboy" and reckless, and the bold, open view of America as a leader in the world was despised. Now, however, the USA is seen to lead by taking out Osama Bin Laden personally, striking into the heart of another nation to carry out a mission in a unilateral manner without any UN approval or world-wide permission. The truth is, the Bush administration's tireless efforts to fight terrorism worldwide in the face of unbelievable opposition and pressure by the left was so effective and so right that now, even hard left former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) had to recently thank President Bush. This was a long process that started years ago under the Bush administration, and was carried out using the same techniques with the tools and areas established by the Bush team by the Obama administration. Two presidencies in a row worked to bring about the death of Osama, resulting in justice for the man who attacked America twice on its own soil. President Bush told America we needed to be ready for "patient justice" before we could finally see Osama Bin Laden taken in. And President Obama, one of the Bush administration's most strident and vocal opponents, used the very tools, techniques, and tactics that he attacked previously and very publicly to accomplish it all, vindicating former President Bush and six years of the War on Terror before Obama took office. Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/opinion-zone/2011/05/vindication-president-bush#ixzz1LVYS4Fwr
Yep! The coward is so vindicated he didn't dare show his face at ground zero at the president’s invitation today.
yep 4000 dead US soldiers, hundreds of thousands more injured, and trillions of dollars spent on Iraq was so worth it
