If this team can get a true superstar in a trade that includes Kevin Martin, then I'm 100% for it. Otherwise, there's really no point.
I fail to understand why you think Martin's game is so dependent on Adelman's system. He is a 3 point shooter who attacks to get to the free throw line. He moves extremely well without the ball, makes his man run around all game and scores efficiently, the type of game that translates anywhere. 07, 08, 09 were all seasons Kevin played without adelman and his shooting percentages were fairly similar across the board to this season. Shooters can shoot regardless of system. On trading him... If the right deal is there to be made then I can understand taking that route. But I'm a little weary of how Lowry is gonna feel if you completely abandon any hope of winning for a few seasons. I mean if what some people suggest happens and we move scola and then move martin for nothing more than potential in young raw players or draft picks, I cant see kyle being really excited about it. I'd like to think he would handle it professionally but we all know he wants to win. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed in pro sports, is he gonna want to waste a few years of his prime hoping this team will come together through the lotto and do it quickly? Just a thought... Who knows if we just so happen to lose all three all of the pro tankers could finally rest happily knowing that we will be reeling in top 5 lotto picks for many years to come.
You don't trade a player just because his value is high right now. I mean, do you think the Heat are salivating at the though of trading away Dywane Wade? He's already 29! And he'll probably won't be better than he is now. What about D. Rose? I'm sure Chicago is already thinking about selling high on the season MVP. You only trade away a player if the offer given is higher than the actual value that player has on the team. I'm pretty sure Kevin Martin by himself won't fetch a top 3 pick-he just doesn't have that "star" quality about him that players like Melo have, and I don't know any rebuilding team that will give you a top pick in exchange for Martin. Secondly, assuming you do get that lottery pick what are the chances that lottery pick will turn out better than Kevin Martin? Just use the last draft class as a benchmark, which rookies this year project to have a better career than Kevin Martin? I count Wall, PP. Cousins, Favors....and that's it. FYI 30 pt TS% 0.60 don't grow on trees, our team was top 4 offense in the league despite not having Yao, and a lot of that was because of KM. Finally there's a difference between rebuilding on the fly (or reloading) and being mediocre. Being mediocre belongs to franchises like the Bobcats who sold their souls to be a playoff team in the short run and have no direction to go. Right now the Rox are retaining their flexibility, they can continue trying to trade for a star if one becomes available or they can rebuild if no one comes along. I don't see a problem with keeping those two options and locking yourself to rebuilding. LOL what happens if we trade away Scola and KM and Hayes and Granger or DH becomes available? WHat would be the point to getting those guys if they have no one to play with?
honestly depends on whether or not they are able to accomplish their primary goal this offseason. This is not going to be a total rebuilding process. It could turn out that way if their first couple of trade/acquisition goals aren't met.
I think if you are going to go young, you go all the way, been saying that KMart should be flipped for quite some time now. As for Luis, I kind of like that he can teach his footwork to PPat and JHill, but if you get a good offer.... SOLD. DD
You just compared Kevin Martin to Dwayne Wade and Derrick Rose. Any point you were trying to make just went out the window, sorry. If Kevin Martin was in the vicinity of either of those players talents, I would advocate to rebuild around him. You rebuild AROUND Dwayne Wade and Derrick Rose. You bring in Kevin Martin when you're rebuilding around someone else. Who cares? Kyle Lowry almost left Houston for Cleveland because he would have a shot at a starting PG spot -- I doubt he cares about winning so much that he'll shut down if Martin is traded. Lowry has three more years left, he is the least of my concerns. That's unfortunate to hear, unless that was your opinion and not necessarily the vibe the organization is giving off to you. I think it's clear Morey is looking more at rebuilding than retooling -- that much was obvious by letting go of Adelman. Unless their primary goal is to sign Samuel Dalembert, they aren't accomplishing it.
If you find yourself having to continuously repost in your own thread, odds are you presented a really bad idea. Of the many things you are not factoring into your idea, the most glaring is the was superstar players are beginning to control their trade destinations. If we trade our best player, who may be one-way but at 25+, not 20+, then what superstar is going to want to come join our team of roleplayers and potential draft picks? It hasn't worked yet and won't work later. Next idea please.
especially ppat. he needs to learn low post moves to become a great PF. otherwise, he will be at most a good PF of role player type.
:grin: I like to sell my idea to those who are slow to come around, sorry. The funny part about your comment is that superstars don't want to come to THIS team either. It hasn't worked yet and it won't work later -- so why not trade our high priced guys for players who people WILL want to play with down the line? Nobody's knocking on our door asking if Martin or Scola can come out to play. Next argument against mine, please.
What superstar is clamoring to join us now, WITH our "best player"? What hasn't worked yet and probably won't work later is trying to entice a superstar to come here with all our "assets" when not one wants to. The next idea is to go the traditional route and draft one of our own. Which is the point of rebuilding, aka the point of this thread.
Agree, sell high for a new first round draft picks to a lottery team. Kevin Martin is a leftover from the Adelman era, since Morey wants to start fresh he'll probably want to get rid of a few of our more expensive contracts.
I think we should trade him asap, we may get lucky in the draft lottery and pick up Harrison Barnes, or another stud. I think well be just finewith out martin, next season is gona be a transition year for us new coach he's gona be tinkering line ups getting to know players, developing players, so what is there to lose.
It's clear that players of different ages and skillsets can have different values to different teams. That's why trades happen. What I don't get is this idea that you can "sell high" on a particular player based on information that makes you think his value is going to drop. If that were the case, don't you think other teams would take that information into account?
The one team I could definitely see having interest in Martin is Dallas. Cuban mentioned during the analytics conference that they were making a push to get their hands on Martin last season before we did, and if the Mavericks go down against the Lakers this round, I think there's got to be serious discussion about the future of the Mavs franchise- an aging roster that has thrown virtually the same roster configuration time and time again at the upper-tier of the west and came out on the losing end. Of the players on the Mavs, Nowitzki is obviously the holy grail. He's the one who holds the most value, but he's also turning 33 very soon and has been in the league for ten years. You'd have to assume that he's got about three seasons left before he starts visibly declining, and much of their roster is at the cusp of retiring and/or declining (Kidd, Terry, Marion, Stojakavic, etc.). But before even considering a trade, there are two major questions that have to be resolved: As other posters mentioned, what are we trading Martin for? Do we want to get back players that are better than him and package him with other pieces? (e.g. Martin + Scola for someone) Or do we want to go young and trade Martin and other players for a high draft pick? So the organization has to figure out its direction on this one, and I'd prefer the organization look towards the draft as a way to rebuild rather than continue the path of incremental improvements. The second question is how much value KMart really holds in the eye of other GMs. Although his overall statistics are great, its difficult to ignore his dip in production during clutch minutes. During the regular season, the Net pts when he was on the floor was +167, and the offensive rating was 1.14 and def rating was 1.1. His FG% was 43.6% and his eFG% was 50.6%. In the 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points, his statistics were markedly different: Net pts were -56, offensive average was 101.1 and defensive average was 117.3. His FG% was 37.8 and eFG was 41.2. His jump shooting percentage was 31.9%. Martin is a statistical monster who rarely decides games on his play. If we hold on to him for another season, I wouldnt mind because I dont see his numbers declining, but if the right opportunity presents itself, the team would be wise to consider. WAG: Of the things that leads me to believe the team will actively look to trade him is KMart's outspokenness about players on the team being treated like assets. It could have been an honest assessment, or it could have been a response to the writing he sees on the wall. Beyond that, if there's any player Adelman had close ties with, you'd have to think its Martin based on their years together in Sacramento, and I wouldnt be surprised if Adelman balked at the idea of trading Martin, especially if it meant trading him for 'assets' he considered to be worth less than Martin. In any case, at this point this is all idle speculation, so take it for what it is
