Dragongirl speaks logic.... therefore gets repped! If we traded KMart for a pick that got us a Center we could possibly use our other lottery pick on Alec Burks. I think he will be a stud.
LTF/CXbby/Dragon Girl - While I definitely see the merit in "bottoming out early" by trading Martin for a high lottery pick in this year's draft, I just don't agree with that strategy. Not because I don't like the strategy in concept. It's just that the 2011 NBA Draft is SOOO damn weak from 3 through 10. Frankly, I'd much rather come back next season with Martin and have him continue to pile up the points in an efficient manner. THEN, in 2012, when the draft is much more top-heavy with great prospects, the Rockets can trade up using any assortment of Martin, their own pick (if it's in the lottery) and the Knicks' pick. Remember, Kevin Martin has been a member of teams that ended up getting top-5 picks, so it CAN be done. (By the way, I'm not advocating tanking . . . just saying it's still possible.) I do agree with CXbby and Dragon Girl, though, that drafting Jonas V and stashing him overseas "helps" the rebuilding process in a sense by NOT helping the Rockets on the court much next season. With his uncertain contract status, I really hope he falls far enough in the draft that the Rockets can trade up from #14 (using either/both of #23 or #38) to nab him. Helps the roster glut for next season, too.
Bima, I understand where you're coming from. The 2012 draft is in all likelihood going to be a stronger draft and Martin is our biggest trade piece at the moment. Here's a few things I'd counter with: -I wouldn't necessarily call this draft weak 3-10. I think that overall it is a weak draft, but you can still find good players in the top five. I'm extremely intrigued by the international four (sans Byombo) -- perhaps even enough to pull the trigger on a deal should Morey also like the prospect. -It's going to be A LOT easier to trade up in this draft than it will in the 2012 draft. Also, I think the 2011 draft finds Minnesota in a unique position should they land the 3rd or 4th pick. I don't believe that they want to draft another young rookie and would prefer a veteran -- next year, there may be another team in their place who only wants a young guy. I don't think we can assume "let's not do this deal this year, let's do it next year" when the circumstances have to be right for a team to trade their top five pick as is. -Also paramount to keep in mind is that Kevin Martin played in 80 games this year -- the most he's played in three years. I'd think hard about selling high on him while his perceived injury risk is lower. -I think the Rockets will struggle to move up very far in this draft by only using a combination of their 2011 draft picks. Being that the 2011 draft becomes a lot weaker after say the first ten picks, teams would be less likely to want multiple 2011 picks back in exchange for their higher pick. The 2012 draft would be more conducive to this strategy, as teams would value later picks in that draft a lot higher than they would in this year's draft. -Quite frankly, if there was a year to be a bad team, 2012 is the year to do it. Making the playoffs as an 8th seed could potentially set us back in future rebuilding efforts, as the only 1st rounder we would have would be the Knicks (likely non-lotto). That's not a very fun statement to write, but I also believe it to be true.
In what? Me? I don't want to tank. I'm just commenting on why I don't think the "trade Martin now" strategy is preferable and how, IF you wanted to pursue that general strategy, it may be worthwhile to wait until 2012.
Bima, I think your primary gripe is not getting max value for Martin, in which case you would most likely be right, given the lack of high end talent in this year's draft. However that is where my position has shifted of late(not set in stone, still wobbling). To attempt to get max value out of Martin in 2012 draft, and run the risk of not being able to move up at all, or sell Martin short this year, meanwhile making up the difference with a much better pick of your own next year. Would a bump up from 12-14th pick to 7-8th pick be worth it to sell Martin a little short but a year early? That would be up to Morey's computers to figure out. However, even if we do still come out a little behind value-wise, it is made up by eliminating the risk of other teams not willing to trade their pick for Martin in 2012. By banking on your own pick now, we would hold our own destiny. We could always start T-will and Thabeet if we start winning too much. IMO the risk of not getting a deal done is greater than losing a little value. If we fail to move up again in 2012, and the team is still without a franchise player, I fear the fans would reach a tipping point and Morey's job would be on the line. As if that hasn't begun to happen already.
Any move involving Martin for whatever reason... I don't know if replacing him is worth it.. sure he lacks defense but a guy that can score that efficiently and knock down fts like they were nothing down the stretch is something I don't see popping out of nowhere in any conceivable up coming draft. Martin can still run as well..
I would love to keep Martin and still end up in position to get top five pick in 2012…I just don’t really see a way how. I see this team, as constructed, a) ending up with 11-14 pick, or b) getting seventh or eighth seed, first round exit, and losing pick to NJ. Either way will feel like a wasted season to me. So I guess I’m okay with losing good player to make us worse and get a great one for the future. I see losing Martin for a young center plus future star we will get from tank job as pretty good value. And I know we may not be so excited with Jonas or Kanter now, but if they can improve in next couple years it could turn out really big for us considering how valuable centers are. I think this idea is unpopular for many people because they really hate to think about losing team. And really hate to think about getting less than 100% value for a good player. Which I do not blame. I just think of where it really takes you to hold onto vets that keep you in middle and this makes sense to me. I personally would trade Scola too for best young player we could get. Maybe solution for all this is to hire horrible coach whose incompetence overcomes too much talent of our team. From names that appear every day, this just may be master plan of Morey.
I would agree with that except that this may be the draft we have a chance to get a legit starting center. I certainly don't think you trade KMart for nothing but no position is harder to fill than the Center position with a quality player. There are three in this years draft that might turn into that solution for the next decade and a half. Wouldn't you agree that a player like that would be worth Kevin Martin?
whats the point of having kevin martin around if were gona be developing our young players...it just doesnt make sense
Actually Jonas Valanciunas and kevin martin are very similar, both of them are built skinny, no defence but great offensively also valanciunas shoots over 91% from the free trow line.
LOL, what a fail on my part i meant Donatas Motiejunas, this guys favorite player is LUIS SCOLA imagine him picking up on scolas game and get developed by dawson and hakeem.
Help the rebuilding process by not helping the team on the court next season???? C'mon...... Danoman, Motiejunas at least could have a better defensive potential at his position. 7 footer, not a bad frame, mobility... Remember Pau when he arrived to the league (and has become a center, Motje doesn't have that wingspan and outstanding frame, but what he has could be more than enough to make career as PF).
I was being (at least partly) facetious! I think Jonas could be the best pick available by far in that range (depending on what Morey & Co. think of thim), so it's actually the best move to help the team compete long-term. Generally, though, I personally do not want to tank but would rather make a trade that makes us BETTER rather than (temporarily) much, much worse.
What's the point in moving Martin to bring in lesser players? Rockets didn't get Scola, Patterson, Martin, Lowry, Lee, or Hayes by drafting high. If they can bring in a C and SF on the Martin level by similar means without washing out the roster, it's far and away the best option.
