Sorry to everyone that I'm taking the bait, but here's a "demonstration" of the "difference" between "Lowry" and "winners." Not sure why Lowry is in quotes there. Kyle Lowry since Brooks left versus the average primary point guard of the last 20 NBA champions: Code: Lowry ---- Champion 16.8 - Points - 10.9 4.5 - Rebounds - 2.7 7.3 - Assists - 4.1 1.1 - Steals - 1.0 Let's not spew BS about what kind of point guard you need to win. I agree Lowry can't be the best player on a championship team, but there are 11 other roster spots and 4 other positions. This was not in response to Rubio but in response to the idea that we can't win with Lowry as our "subpar" point guard.
another unproven european, eh, no thanks ill pass.. i dont want the next vspan, or nachbar at the cost of the heart of the team-along with chuck
DaDa, why do you keep going down these roads, even when your position starts to completely baffle your intelligent fan? 24 months ago...sure. 12 months ago...yep. 6 months ago...that's a tough one, probably not. Today, definitely not. You've undoubtedly have a few people agreeing with you, but this is just another in a long list of players you've backed that have ended up being nowhere near as good as you anticipate. Maybe Rubio will prove us (those that disagree with you) wrong.... but he won't.
This is not an easy decision, I will just make some points for some of you that are suffering the disease guys like DD had last year after ABs great offensive season: - Don´t judge Lowry offensive performance based on numbers of this year, we all know that players that play for Adelman have better offensive numbers then in any other team/coach/system (for the most part), signed Landry (just look how great he looked offensively in clutch situations for us) AB (no words needed) Dragic (triple double when given the chance) Hayes (not seen him play for any other team, but there is no way this 6´6 PF defensive machine can have another triple-double when coached by anyone else) Ariza (even with the best PG in the league, this guy is less effective shooting the ball) and finally Bud (I hope I am wrong, but I don´t see him being an offensive weapon like he is/was for us, in any other team/coach/system, this guy knows hot to use screens and his late aggressive playing style, attacking the rim fits perfectly in this offense, I see this guy being a spot-up shooter in this league nothing more, but RA and his system gave him the opportunity to do other things, even if he is just average at them, slashing, hope I am wrong) Of course Lowry gives you other things other then Offense, which makes this decision harder For those that will think that I am gay for RA, I am not, these stats/facts are a product of his system, giving everyone the opportunity to take the open shot, rotating the ball and having patience using screens with no ball dominator. And for those thinking that I am an AB lover/Lorwy hater, for me, Lorwy is our 2nd best starter, talking about position strength, after Martin at the 2. I just think that comparing Lowry to all the starting PG in this league, he is average, because the PG spot in this league is extremely talented. People will hate me to say this, but if I had to choose between for example a 20 year old Jrue Holiday and our fighter/hussler/heart of our team Lowry, I would choose Jrue. People will disagree or not but the point is simple, it is so close between 99% of the starting PGs in this league, that it is very justifiable that you go after rubio, that at worst would be an average PG but at best he would be a superstar. I love the fact that 99% of you guys saying that we should not trade Lorwy for Rubio, are the ones that say DM is stupid for not gambling on DeAndre Jordan, lol, when all of you would bash the pick because he was a stiff 7 footer when drafted by the Clipps that took a huge gamble on him (low risk considering the pick) Another thing to consider, there is NO WAY we trade Lorwy for only Rubio, not because of talent, but because Lorwy already proved that he is a huge bargain considering his talent, hustle and age, Minny would have to include more in the package, and they know it. And finally another scenario, we go after D12 (that is why the stan Van Gundy name has been thrown out there, because there is no way this guy is a DM or les favorite), and if the trade happens we will go after Williams (will not re-sign) or CP3, and we will need Lorwy to trade for them. This last point is pure speculation on my part :grin:. PeAcE
Rick Adelmans offense does lend itself to a increase in offensive stats. However Lowry's stats are also not within Ricks offense. He pushes the ball by his nature. I would be interested to see his stats next year increase in some capacity under a full year of starting and no shared minutes starting with Brooks any longer. I fully expected Brooks production to fall off at some time. Just not so quick into the next season. I was hoping his skills would last until after the trade deadline to get some value in a trade involving him but he fell completely off his game. Which could not hide that his big year was a fluke at all in the way it did. So Morey waited too long. He should have moved Brooks earlier and got much more for him in the offseason before the season started. I know its hard to anticipate these things? Over and over it seems morey does not anticipate any of his eventual moves with the right timing though. He may not be nastrodamus and I may not be? This is getting rediculous to at least not have some foresight on some things he didnt at least think could happen/See coming.
Grass is always greener. Question: Is Adelman responsible for Lowry's maturation . . . or is it all Lowry? Rocket River
The question should really be: Would you trade Kyle Lowry to make room for Ricky Rubio? The odds are that Minny would probably want something other than Lowry for Rubio, probably our draft pick and maybe TWill, essentially two first round picks for him. Lowry would then either mentor the kid (not a likely option) or be traded elsewhere (Cleveland) for other picks/talent. Would Cleveland give us #8 plus a bad contract for Lowry and expiring? Would I do it? Yes. Rubio's got 5 years on him. And I think Rubio is going to be a superstar. And I think Lowry's trade value is soaring right now.
Your could/would/should analysis makes me happy you're not GM. If Rubio has a season like Lowry had last year within the next three years it would come as a shock.
JayZ, I am not backing Rubio, I just believe this is the kind of deal that DM would like to make for the team. Do I think Rubio is a Superstar in the making? Don't really know, but some big time NBA scouts think that, and they know more than me, so I could see DM making that move. I like Kyle a lot, think he is a very good PG for this team, rugged, plays good D, shoots well, and competes. I would just say at this point in the organization, you have to take chances to TRY to get a Superstar player as most that become free agents don't seem to really even consider the Rockets anymore. DD
Thats actually a good reason. Plus it helps one factor people never think about. What if? Lets say he is not Lowry but pretty good? We lose a couple more games next year rebuilding and fitting him into the lineup. He is a better passer and just a tad below Lowrys level in toughness causing us losses? We have a good point guard still? The team gets a top draft pick because we took a chance? We draft alot higher and have Rubio a good point guard. Now instead of having Lowry who leads us to another almost playoff run but slightly better than Rubio and another 15th pick in the draft potential role player? We have Rubio a good point guard but not as good as Lowry and a top 5 pick potentially superstar in next years draft? For that I say definately yes it is worth more than Lowry for that plan.
What if Rubio is just pretty good but worse than Lowry? What if that leads us to a higher draft pick next year and wrose record with Rubio starting instead of having the better Lowry who leads us to another middle of the pick 8th seed or worse standing? Sometimes you have to move slightly back to move forward. You get it? Lowry could equal better player if you can sign or trade for Superstar Rubio potential Superstar but likely worse than Lowry. Which gets you potential Superstar with higher draft selection after you lose more because he is decent but no Kyle Lowry. You have Superstar potnetial two ways here though. You have Rubios potential and the potential for higher draft pick. Which is more likely? Rubio and more losses to draft one? Kyle and trying to sign or trade for one? Thats what we got to ask ourselves.
I think the difference between Potential . .and potential reached is coaching and heart. before the rocket can make this kind of investment they need to: 1. GET A COACH 2. determine Rubio's willingness and ability to improve. With no coach in place. . . I don't know if this is a good idea If we bring in a JVG type. . . i don't think it is a good idea If we bring in an Adelman type . .. I would be less skeptical but still skeptical. Bird in the hand et al . . . Rocket River
Free advice: Nobody can read your posts on this subject (and granted for whatever masochistic reason, we're still reading them) without thinking of 25-kg kettlebell-sized crowdump that Kyle Lowry took on your blabbering face this season with respect to his performance, so maybe you should be a bit more conciliatory and cautious in your inglorious return, chico.
He is being cautious. He's not saying "Rubio is the future" or "Rubio is an alpha-dog" or anything like that.
I wouldn't worry about the coach. But it's a good question as to how determined Rubio is to succeed in the NBA. Is he really motivated, or is he content where he is?
