Different players, different eras is correct. DPOY is a big man dominated award. But like I said, look at the history of the all NBA teams. You have defenseless PF posing as centers (Amare), you have a Shaq from Phoenix Suns getting into third team. An over the hill center, averaging 18 and 8 gets into the all NBA third team? Let's look at the older era, when Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing played. Shaq averaged 29, 13, 2 and 3. Guess what, he is on the all NBA third team behind Hakeem and Robinson. Look at the difference between before and now. 29 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists and 3 blocks is only good enough to get you into the All NBA third team. Dwight will win one at best (if he is lucky) if he had to play against the likes of Hakeem, Robinson and Shaq. You yourself admit Dwight is still not better than Hakeem on defense, but Hakeem only had two DPOY honors. The DPOY doesn't mean nearly as much as you think it does.
Of course it all makes sense what you are saying or implying to say...We have agreed on alot of points when discussing different eras of big men...Any real B-ball fan will have biased based objectives toward there favorite players.... Again Javal(me) aint sayin Howard is better than Hakeem offensively or defensively as of now..... Defensively I think he has a chance...As for the other centers (Robinson,Chamberlain,Russell,etc)...I think he can measure up closer to them because of his continued defensive dominance in this PG driven league..... I think if you look at his whole body of work(including future NBA hardware), he should be top 3.....The league and his age now only helps his cause...The same way those greats had their advantages as to why people put them in their top 5 all time.....
Shaq could have average 30/15/5 .....They wouldnt have put him over Hakeem and Robinson because Shaq was still looked at as a one-dimensional wrecking ball....
Exactly... This is a PG driven league, there is not competition in centers... Stop being so subjective. I am looking at Dwight's whole body of work, he isn't a top 3 center of all time. Not even close. That's so incorrect. Hakeem and Robinson were picked over Shaq because they were better. Hakeem had his MVP season, he was averaging 27 points , 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 4 blocks. Robinson on the other hand averaged 30 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 3 blocks. These 2 guys were having monster seasons, making Shaq's already monstrous season look like role player stats. One dimensional wrecking ball? Amare Stoudamire is a one dimensional wrecking ball (yet not even close to the domination that Shaq imposed), with absolutely horrid defense, and he gets in the All NBA first team as a center?
See, the difference between our observations on this particular subject is you go go by stats..Which is actually fine but it doesnt tell the whole story..I look at him being in a PG driven league and doing what he's doing as a positive..You look at it as a black mark.. I look at Dwight winning 3 consecutive DPOY as outstanding, while you and others look at it as "well he should considering the comp" I see a young athletic specimen who hasnt reached his offensive potential although he's showing dominance this year...You look it as 23 pts a game isnt dominant..... Certainly I would agree with your view of another player the same as you if I were to compare someone like K.Malone vs Tim Duncan.... sure K.Malone has the stats but no rings...Duncan has the rings so he's better......I just think it matters on the people mentioned, player position, and era when talkin about the Greatest players
I don't look at him by just stats, I look at the full picture. I look at his competition, I look at how he scores his points etc. You don't look at any stats at all. You just assume from the eyeball test that Dwight Howard is going to be a top 3 center of all time. Winning 3 DPOY is outstanding, sure, but it doesn't make you the greatest defensive center of all time. To be honest, you really aren't giving me any evidence. All you're doing is arguing what I debunked over and over again. I just said, this is indeed a PG driven league because good centers are rare to none. I never said Dwight wasn't dominant, you're putting words in my mouth. Look, there is no point arguing with you if all you're going to do is say your eyes tell you he will be a top 3 center of all time. I gave you plentiful evidence, at least show me some facts.
i think dwight closely resmebles robinson. i honestly don't see how defensively dwight is better than prime robinson. if you put a prime robinson in today's nba, he'd be winning this award every year too. there's no hakeem, zo, mutombo and rodman today to compete against. and offensively robinson was a clearly better than dwight is now.
I think Howard needs to work more on his offense I know he worked on his O this past off season, but he still needs to get better. Right now I dont think hes going to be a great player for long because I think once he lose his athletic ability his days as a great player are gone.
When is he going to lose his athletic ability though? The guy's just 25. If you use SHaq as a benchmark of athletic longevity he still has 10 years of prime athleticism left.
Robinson's a pretty good benchmark. He's not Hakeem, but the Admiral is still regarded as one of the best C in history. One edge that DH has over Robinson though is that he seems tougher and more physical.
10 years left that would put him at almost 36, no way he still has it till then. I think he will lose his athletic ability in his early 30s.
Shaq actually throws his weight and height around more. He didn't really take advantage of much athletism when he was entering his prime. Dwight relies heavily on his athletism, more so than his strength. That will be detrimental in the future, and he doesn't have near the weight and power Shaq had to compensate.
Sometimes Ifeel you have better points about why he wont be considered top 5 material ....But after reading this, I know for a fact you a biased toward Dwight....The Dwight Ive seen uses his strength better than anyone right now in the post..His athletism allows for highlight reel plays every so often..Sounds like you're speaking for Deandre Jordan....
The evidence you're giving me is more common sense than making a stronger case...you think I dont know that Hakeem had better competition???...or that rings matter more to some people???....When his career is over, Im guessing Dwight's career achievements will look something like 22,000+ points, 13000+ rbs, #2 alltime blocks leader/maybe #1 since he's still 25 , 5+ DPOY, at least 1 MVP, championship/champinships.... If thats the evidence you were looking for to prove my case there it is....Only reason I ddnt use stats is because he is nowhere near the end of his career....Other centers may have similar or better stats in particular categories, but its hard to not recognize his full body of work....YOU WIN if you contradict...
Dwight may have the strength and agility, but he lacks the coordination to be great enough to supplant anyone in the top 5. <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cAglVkIIy0Y?version=3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Oh come on, why don't you actually reply to the post that I targeted specifically for you, and not go off on a random tangent. Dwight relies on BOTH his strength and athletism, but his athletism is a HUGE factor to his game, more so than his strength. What do you mean his "athletism" allows for his highlight reel? His athletism made him a 3 time DPOY, his superior leaping ability combined with his height makes him an ideal shot blocker. And I NEVER said he doesn't know how to use his strength, I'm saying his athletism is huge part of his game, more so than his strength. Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth. And just because I don't think Dwight is a top 3 center of all time doesn't make me bias against Dwight. You are absolutely ridiculous.
By the time Kobe's career is over, his cumulative career numbers will exceed Jordan's, but nobody outside of LA will consider him to be at Jordan's level. Most people will realize that his numbers are more indicative of his longetivity as opposed to his individual greatness. To put things in perspective, a 25 year old Dwight just averaged 2.4 bpg. Olajuwon was able to do this when he was 36 years old.
Dwight has size, athleticism, and strength. Shaq had size, athleticism, strength, and agility. And it's the agility that puts him on an entirely different level than Dwight.
How is that even evidence? That is just your guess. That has absolutely no objective material behind it. My stats may be common sense, but they are evidence. Yours are not. Do you know how many blocked shots Hakeem has? 3830 Do you know how many blocked shots Dwight has so far? 1228 That is a 2602 difference. You know what that means? Dwight has to average about 3.2 blocks per game for another TEN YEARS missing NO games at all to surpass Hakeem. Seriously, this is just getting annoying. "alltime blocks leader/maybe #1 since he's still 25". Really? This is called baseless facts. One reason you don't use stats is because no stats support your case. That or you don't know how to use stats.
