Look man...As I understand it(my JAck Yates education withstanding),MAYBE would translate that "theres strong possibilty"....Howard WILL go down as a great center period....True, it may have to do with weak competition or his just to his ultra defensive attributes....But once he jumps ship, and puts himself in better position to win multiple rings, then and only then will people realize him as an alltime great.....
Wow Howard can defend Chuck Hayes. He must be one of the best defensive players off all time:grin: So you are saying that the easiest defensible players for a guy like Howard are 6"5 centers with no shot and a almost non-existent post game? Impressive:grin:
He might be a HOF, but there are already an abundant amount of centers in that category already. Hakeem, Shaq, Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem ARE the 5 centers that have gone neck to neck for the top spot since their retirement. Dwight Howard could not even come close to touching these guys. Not in terms of stats, competition, rings, wins etc.
Thats the thing that kills me about these debates..People generally dont give these new generation players the recognition they deserve...I remember folks saying Shaq wasnt ****e back when he was with Orlando...But when he won a ring he became the "best center"...So if Jordan had only won 1 or 2 rings, I bet most people on here would put Magic and Bryant over him...Its crazy to denounce Howard because he doesnt have an equal ....That people is what I call "DOMINATION".....And he still has 5-7 great ,dominant, years left in him ..... If that isnt criteria for an all-time great, then I need the manual!!!!
What? Are you serious? Everybody recognized Shaq as a force the moment he came to the league. You can't be serious at all. They wont 20 more games the moment he came in this league. He became the first rookie to be voted in the all star game since Jordan, he WON rookie of the year. He held his own against Hakeem despite losing to us in the finals. Something tells me you don't know what you're talking about.
Look, I'm with you that most people here are loathe to give Howard the respect he deserves. I guess it's just a function of this being a Rockets forum. I also think it's pathetic. On the other hand, if you are old enough to remember Shaq, you would know the two cannot really be compared. More than any player in history (except maybe Wilt), Shaq inflicted a HUGE physical toll on teams. His combination of strength, agility, power and weight was unmatched. I don't see Howard ever getting to that level because he isn't big enough and can't physically dominate like Shaq did. I don't think there is much argument. Howard definitely has a chance to be an "all-time great". Maybe he'll have to leave Orlando (like Shaq) and go elsewhere to get the respect he deserves. Still, some people here will never give him unqualified praise because they dislike him so much. For that matter, some here cling to the fantasy that Hakeem "schooled" Shaq in the 1995 NBA Finals. Total nonsense. Rockets fans don't like acknowledging other Cs.
Ric Bucher is saying Magic will likely deal Howard this summer. What would it take for a S&T...Scola, Knicks Pick, what else?
Im saying the same destruction he caused by "bullying" was enough justification for some folks (maybe not you,definitely not me) to say all he does is "back down and dunk".. Then all of sudden, after that 95 Finals beatdown, Shaq developed a ****load of moves ....and lookee loookee!!!... Howard oing the same damn thang and is gettin roasted because he's head and shoulders better than any other center........If I dont know what Im talking about, then let me be wrong....Unfortunately for you , I know what Im talking about!!!!! no disrespect intended...
Wait, that doesn't make any sense. So he took the league by the storm, established himself as one of the better centers around the league, and the complaint was all he could do is back down and dunk? That doesn't mean the league doesn't respect how dominating he was. Shaq could back down and dunk every single time and score 50 points if he wanted to. Howard is not doing the same thing as Shaq, Howard is not even half the scorer Shaq was, and he plays against lesser competition. Howard is the best center in the league right now, no doubt, but compared to the greats? No chance. Shaq averaged 29 points in his sophomore season, Dwight didn't average 20 points till his fourth season in the league. You are shifting the argument, I certainly think Dwight Howard is the best center in the league right now, but you are calling him a top 3 center in NBA history, a better defensive player than Hakeem etc. That is just absurd.
How am I not making sense????.....Forget the overanalyzation and just take heed to what is written....I'm not comin at you with stats or stupid +/- ratios to show what Im sayin....Im just sayin the dude will be a top 5 center once those rings start hoppin on them fingers...True Isnt as physically, offensively dominating as Shaq, doesnt have the footwork or agility of Dream, doesnt have the sky hook like KAJ, will never get to a hundred points like Wilt, will never approach 11 NBA titles like Russell....But because of his domination on BOTH ends, he'll be up there with them...If you look at what you think are the top 5 centers of all-time, each of those have had the luxury of player with a GREAT PLAYER...Once he and CP3 come to Houston next year, people will recognize my genius!!!!!:grin:
this is dwight's FIRST season where he has truly been playing at a superstar level on BOTH ends. if he can continue to do this for 8-9 more seasons, then he will go down as an all-time great. people dont' remember previous seasons where he can be stopped offensively. not this season. loving how dwight is playing so far.
javal_lon, maybe you can dial back a little and we can agree on this: Howard is on track for the Hall of Fame, but not Mt. Rushmore. I doubt very much he will end up a consensus top 5 center of all-time. You are free to disagree. But Howard will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
Hakeem didn't have the luxury of playing with a great player in his first championship, but he had the luxury of playing with Drexler on his last legs. And what are you talking about? The 5 centers I mentioned dominated on both ends of the court, at another level that Dwight is not on. David Robinson dominated on both ends of the court, it didn't put him in the top 5 greatest centers list. Look, the problem with you is you are literally dismissing any facts I'm throwing at you. What do you mean forget the stats? That's like saying "forget the stats, just listen to what I'm telling you, Rafer Alston will be the top 3 PG of all time!" Dwight wouldn't a top 5 center of all time, you can count on that, no way.
At least we're moving on from the "Yao is better than Dwight" comparisons if many are comparing Dwight to HoF greats now.
FYI, Rafer is a top 3 PG to ever come out of the circus.......Anyhow I dont think the stats reference was meant to say "**** what you sayin"...Howard is just now reaching his prime...And his legacy will SKYROCKET once he plays with some REAL help,while he's playin at his current level of play.....
FYI, Rafer Alston is nowhere near the best PG in the league, it doesn't matter if he was a good streetball player. Dwight's legacy might skyrocket if he gets real help, or if he wins a championship, but in the end he still won't sniff the top 5 greatest centers of all time, nor will he ever be the defensive player Hakeem is. I don't doubt that Dwight is a great player, and his HOF chances only increases the more he plays at this current rate. But I'm arguing the point that you made, which was Dwight will be a top 5 center of all time and a better defensive player than Hakeem. I'm saying that won't ever happen.
