Florida Pastor Terry Jones Burns Quran After Mock Trial (w/ video)

I know this is a bad analogy, but I keep thinking of an episode of Seinfeld grin - and how Elaine's friend Sue Ellen Mischke walks down the street wearing only a bra as a top. Kramer and Jerry get distracted while driving a car, and they get into an accident as a result. Sure she had every right to wear the bra, and sure Kramer was completely at fault for getting into a wreck in the first place. But should she have done it? Probably not.

The episode, for reference.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/byOVBhy6Vhg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Not much I can argue with here. The extremists are indeed crazy and constantly looking for a reason to kill/spread their message.

 

1) Gotcha.

2) No. As I've been saying, logically, you are only responsible for the hatred towards yourself. You're not responsible for how that hatred gets further spread or manifests itself.

3) I think we're on the same page. When I'm saying incitement, I mean incitement for hatred (the emotion). When you are saying incitement, you are referring to the legal crimes. We are defining it the same but using in different contexts. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm just using the word incitement as its textbook definition, and not to refer to legal implications.

 

One thing I was just thinking about:

Why do people constantly argue as if the wacko's Quran burning was the starting point of everything?

The people who say he should be blamed or even legally held accountable argue like this:

beginning of the world, everyone loves each other -> wacko burns Quran -> extremists kill uninvolved people on the other side of the world -> wacko is (partially) responsible

But now wacko says he did it because some Muslims murdered people.

Wouldn't the same people who direct ALL their anger at the wacko and blame him now have to revert some of their anger back again at the Muslim extremists who prompted wacko to do what he did?

After all, they say that even if the murders were unreasonable and crazy, wacko "caused" them.

Ok, but the same people completely disregard what "caused" wacko's "unreasonable and crazy" action (which in fact was way worse than wacko's action).

So it comes down to wanting to place blame "on the other side", to pointing the finger at wacko as "the one who started it".

That his actions, unreasonable and offensive as they may be, are themselves a reaction to prior events, gets completely ignored.

 

WOW...

http://www.mega949.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=8396084

First the Quran, Now Muhammad
Florida Pastor plans trial for Prophet


His burning of a Quran sparked deadly protests in Afghanistan, but now a Florida pastor says he wants to put the prophet Mohammed on trial for crimes against humanity.

Dr. Terry Jones says despite what he claims have been hundreds of death threats against him, and a $2.4 million bounty on his head, his Dove World Outreach Center will continue to push for a stop to radical Islam.

"We are actually not doing it because we desire to be killed, we are not doing it because we desire publicity," says Jones. "We really believe our message is that important, that the radical element of Islam is a danger to our society."

Jones says it's time the finger is pointed at the real problem, not him.

"What we would like to see come out of this," he says, "is the United States and other western countries would try to force Muslim dominated countries to open up their doors to equal rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, even being removed from the United Nations."

However, Mustaffa Carroll with the Council on American-Islamic Relations says it is people like Jones, not followers of Islam, who are the biggest threat to the world.

"You can be a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, Buddhist or what have you," says Carroll. "The bottom line is, what we do in this world is what makes us good. Whether we burn Qurans and Bibles, or Torahs, it’s kind of silly in this 21st Century world that we live in."

Carroll says the burning of the Quran and anti-Islamic rhetoric does nothing to help the peace process going on in Muslim nations.

"The sensitivities already are high in the region just because the military is there," he says. "Then we're going to put our own soldier's in harm's way because of a stunt, which to me is completely unpatriotic."

Since the Quran burning, President Obama, military leaders, even U.S. lawmakers also have condemned the act saying it jeopardizes our troops stationed in Muslim countries like Afghanistan and elsewhere.

 

wow, this guy is mentally ill... He will single handedly reverse any progress the US has made winning the hearts of Muslims in the Middle East.

 

Irony... ^^^^^^^

 

Sounds to me like the people who are committing these acts of violence weren't really very interested in having their hearts won to begin with.

I'm not down with placating people because they refuse to act like civilized adults.

 

Sounds like it was a minority, What about the other Millions?

Yet you aimlessly defend Terry, Mr. Civilized.

 

Seems to me they're pretty cool with freedom of speech, or at the very least, not killing people over someone else's speech. They're civilized adults. So I think we're ok there.

Tasteless expression isn't quite as uncivilized as murdering people, but hey, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and keep equating the two. Seems to be a pattern in your thinking.

 

Oh great, gives them another excuse to justify their lust for rape and murder.

 

I repeat my question from above, slightly re-worded:

Why do Mathloom, adeelsiddiqui, trustme, NMS is the Best and some leftists (FranchiseBlade, mc mark) get much more worked up when

- the wacko pastor claims to react to murders by burning a book

than when

- crazy Islamists claim to react to a book burning with murders of third parties?

In both cases, the acting parties claim to be reacting to something, yet, the Islamist-leaning posters and the leftist posters pretend that it all started with the pastor's action. They direct most of their outrage at him, although the actions by the Islamists are much more severe by any objective standard (beheading of uninvolved people >>>>>> book burning in own backyard).

 

Because for everyone other than you it seems, condemnation of the murder is agreed upon.

You keep bringing things like this up. It's really foolish.

You want us all to go back and forth on how we all agree that murderers are worse than koran burners?

Murder is not controversial. We mourn it.

Burning the koran is controversial. We argue about it.

Controversy is not an adequate measurement of importance. It is only an adequate measure of how wide beliefs are regarding a topic. That's the error you are making here.

 

So according to your "logic", you direct less outrage at murders because they are "less controversial". "Interesting"...

But my question was a different one:

You all act like the pastor "started it". But he also claims to have reacted to something (murders), just like the crazies in Afghanistan claimed to have acted in reaction to his book burning.

Why is your argument that he caused their actions, but you disregard that they caused his action?

 

I honestly don't have the slightest idea what your question is.

Where exactly is this outrage you are imagining? I've said he's a douchebag, and that's pretty much the universal view. Do you feel douchebag is too strong in comparison to murderer?

But I've said a million times, I don't believe the pastor caused their actions.

Murderers caused the murder.

 

My question was phrased in a way that any person with half a brain could understand.

Ok, let's see...the following are some pretty angry posts, including some by you. Many of them directly blame the pastor for the deaths.

To answer your question above, many of those posts sound like the posters are pretty outraged and angry. And none of that anger quoted in the posts above is directed at the actual murderers. That just gets brushed off as of course that's bad, but...

Now, on to your next lie:

Let's see your very first post in this thread:

You are a weasel. You speak with a double tongue. Now you are trying to make it seem like you said from the outset that you don't believe the pastor caused their actions. Read your first post in this thread (quoted) and you CLEARLY stated that he caused it.

 

are there really people on this board ignorant enough to defend this dude? WOW... I'm just goign to stay the **** away from dnd.

 

Why are you so Angry? It seems that anger motivates your posts. You really shouldn't be so full of hate all the time.

 

I am cool, calm and collected. You and your angry mob cousins, on the other hand...