Florida Pastor Terry Jones Burns Quran After Mock Trial (w/ video)

I'm a lawyer qualified in two jurisdictions (New York and Germany).

My opinion would be exactly the same if he had burned a bible. However, if he had burned a bible, I strongly doubt that people would have been beheaded for it.

I am not doing anybody injustice.

And again, I saw your other thread, and I sincerely wish the best for your country.

 

So how much blame does Youtube get for hosting the video?

 

those of you trying to pin the incitement to the book burning are missing a key link:

The Afghanistan mosque sermons that riled up the fever over there.

Books, flags, bibles, images of Jesus etc are desecrated all the time. All over the world. Several US flags in Afghanistan in this mess. If some US church or political leader used footage of flag burning thousands of miles away to incite their congregation/disciples/minions to riot and kill, I would place some responsibility on those leaders. A fair bit, actually.

So if you're looking beyond the guys who rioted, to who caused them to riot -- you should really be spending a lot more time talking about the lunatic rants of the mosque leaders over there. Jones is neither a leader, nor particularly original in his so called protest. The only reason he stands out, is that his original 'world day of hate' caught the news cycle and attention of groups and people who usually ignore this stuff. Jones is nothing. He represents nothing, except his own brand of hate and ignorance.

If the Afghanistan mosque leaders felt the responsibility to share Jone's acts with their people, shouldn't they also have shared how virtually every western and US political and religious leader has denounced Jones? Do you think they did this?

 

They should, and the fact that they didn't shows you how uneducated these "mosque leaders are", how insanely backward their level of comprehension is, and how much of a tribal mentality they abide by.

Ofcourse the Mosque leaders share part of the blame, but so does Terry.

 

eeeek, my bad bobrek.

I think the WTC factor is critical. Like I said earlier, I haven't heard of another violent event in another country (please correct me if I'm wrong). I would bet money that it the violent outrage was not due to the burning alone. The burning was just a catalyst. Years of anger and frustration of American presence in the country is a lot of the reason imo. A lot of Afghans have lost loved ones and blame the U.S. occupation (number goes above 3000).

I think if some random idiot went and burned a bible next to WTC on August 11th 2001, not many would have cared. Same if the idiot pastor burned the Quran before same date, not many would have cared.

Just as how the D&D was filled with mostly non-Islam related topics before 9-11.

 

Using this logic, you should also place blame on the many talk radio hosts/tea party representatives/Congressman that use incidents of flag burning in Palestine,Iraq etc to incite hatred amongst local Americans.

This same hatred is then expressed by our Soldiers in the battlefield causing them to do inhumane, unspeakable things to Civilians.

Sadly, the one that incites the crowd rarely gets any of the blame.

 

You are conflating bullying with threatening, and threatening with what the pastor did.

You can be ridiculed, teased, etc. But threatening is the difference maker.

Even if what the pastor did *was* threatening, it would not be reasonable to kill random people because somebody somewhere made a vague threat to nobody in particular.

 

Certainly the people in Afghanistan deserve blame and the lion's share of it but I don't think that excuses Jone's. He was warned that doing this might rile people up enough in Afghanistan to lead to such things but he did it anyway. That is his right and a right that I think is sacrosanct but its not like he wasn't aware that there might be consequences from that particular exercise of his rights.

 

Of course it is critical, because it skews the hypothetical and throws off the comparison.

Someone doing something like burning a mini replica of the WTC, on ground zero, could very easily be seen as a threat... think about the context, 3000 people massacred... on the same site... perhaps even on the anniversary... it would give people *reasonable cause* to be worried that this person means harm to them.

Burning a bible or koran at your own place? Not quite the same message.

 

LMAO.

So someone burning my holy book sends what kind of message...? That they want to show me how tolerant, loving, and peaceful they are? You are just posting ignorance now.

 

Can you ever make a post without being demeaning? I'm asking you, as a favor, ok?

Now, you're obviously questioning the means.

So, would you feel less threatened if they shredded them instead? Perhaps dropped in acid? Yes, fire does convey some sense of imagery, but really, does it bother you that much that they picked *that* method over something else? It also happens the be the most efficient, cost effective way of destroying something.

What would you suggest be done, outlawing burning things as a form of expression period? That seems silly.

Bottom line; if you take somebody burning a book as a personal threat against you, and take that threat as reasonable cause to kill somebody (not even the person who burned the book!), then you're certifiably nuts and 100% to blame for your own unreasoned actions.

 

You are part of the angry mob of the BBS.

 

Symbolism of the Quran, Geeta, Bible in many places is much greater than any building.

Imagine the 3000 people that the WTC represents, the Quran for example represents all the Prophets, the companions, the martyrs, the warriors etc etc.

I would expect the same thing to happen in India if a random dude took a statue of Hanuman or Vishnu and started burning it.

Heck, go try and burn a Torah at the Wailing Wall and see what happens.

 

Weren't you the one hurling insults and getting infuriated at certain Muslim names? I am surprised you think that you have the authority to label anyone else as angry.

 

No, I was not.

 

Like I said, if you take me burning a book as a personal threat to *you*, then you're the one with the problem, not me.

If you burned an effigy of me in my front yard, yeah, I might take that as a personal threat.

If you burned a book I like (even a book I base my spiritual foundations on) at your own house, I wouldn't take that as justification to kill anybody.

 

It's not even about the "burning"; Heck burning is one of the preferred methods of discarding an old Quran that can no longer be used. However, it is the motives, the intentions, the hatred of the Preacher (note: religious representative) that incites the thousands in Afghanistan.

It is the same reaction that Americans have when they see any hate video form any random cleric in Saudi Arabia and wonder if every Saudi is a hate loving fanatic.

 

Yes, I believe you were. You started calling people stupid, and then you started implying others were Islamists (Basically terrorists according to your definition)

If that doesn't show anger, I dont know what does.

 

If you take me burning an effigy of you in your front yard as a threat to you, then you are the one with the problem, not me.

 

So why get upset because somebody thinks your religion is bogus? Hell, they can call you all the names they want. But it doesn't give you an even partially legitimate reason to kill somebody, or a random person, even. Even if they were threatening you *directly*, that still isn't a reasonable justification to kill *random* people.