I am on AroundTheWorld's list of "fanatics" now? LOL...this is probably why: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5929046&postcount=521 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=6022931&postcount=170 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5611637&postcount=2 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5726448&postcount=50 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5895874&postcount=84 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5758612&postcount=68 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=5997471&postcount=14
Islamists/Fanatics as defined, grouped and meant by ATW have been responsible for the greatest acts of terror in the last 15 years. They are unparalleled and no poster that I've seen on this forum is even remotely close to that. It's sad that he is freely allowed to label, group, ridicule any clutchfans member as basically a terrorist. Double Standard.
Yeah I'm comfortable with this. I think she was lying or was too drunk to remember. I don't think there's a fundamental difference in my view/value of women, you're free to believe what you want. I would find it interesting for you to show me the logical chain between me thinking she is lying and me disrespecting women's rights. I think the combination of your first post in this thread, and the absence of any descriptive debate from you about why you disagree with me makes your opinion less credible to me. I'm more interested in the views of Rashmon and JV since I know them to be rational posters who will offer their thoughts when/if they disagree with someone.
Yep, fundamental difference in our view/value of women. No amount of internet babble will change that I believe.
Even though you don't like my posts, I believe yours are very interesting. I think everyone who debates you should read your responses and how they evolved in this thread. It helps to see where you are coming from.
Why do you think I don't like your posts? I didn't like your initial post in this thread. It does irritate me that you are essentially saying I see women in an inferior way and don't care to discuss it. It also confuses me that you consider it "internet babble" but you're a member on a forum and you have thousands of posts. But I don't hold some uniform opinion of your posts. I have a poor memory, so I would have to look through someone's history to remember their posts, but I'm not really bothered to do that. As for my posts being interesting, I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or serious, but in any case, I'm glad you think people can learn anything from my posts.
Internet babble meant I thought we were at an impasse that didn't need to be turned into a flame war. In response to this: Because I really don't understand how you don't understand its just not worth it to argue.. We are so far off that's why I think there is an impasse. The best way I can describe it is in America, to call a women who is claiming she had been raped a liar, after the hell she went through for 8 months is in bad taste. Combined with you actually live in that region, it sniffs of justifying it and covering up real feelings towards women and woman's rights. BUT, I also know I get all worked up because I have a beautiful 4 year old niece and just hearing "rape" oh man.... if I could be the executioner for men who rape women, parade them through the streets naked and cane/torture them.... SIGN ME UP. Those aren't humans. They need to be put down. All of them. That's why I was leaving it as it was. Does this help explain my feelings better?
"prove a rape" may be a stretch, but certainly support the claim. Do you believe consensual penetration of a woman's vagina has the same impact on the vaginal tissue as penetration she is not interested in and/or is fighting? Now, the problem is that a rape kit can't rule out the possibility of consensual "rough" sex.
or non consensual sex that doesn't result in "rough" evidence. Sorry, maam, couldn't have been rape because you just weren't "hurt" enough. You're probably lying...or were too drunk to remember. But you did have sex...so you're clearly a harlot. And it's off to prison for you. All a rape kit can prove is sex, and help determine who participated. That's it. Possibly it can lend evidence that a rape occurred, but it cannot in any way determine that rape did not happen.
F'ing hell dude, that's unfair. Are you admitting to stereotyping me just because I live here? Why do you think that? The US has the fourth highest rapes/100,000 people in 2009, and has a history of backlogging rape kits without reviewing them. How much underreporting would have to go on in the UAE for it to catch up given that we pay more attention to it here and apply at LEAST the same standard of testing? If there was any stereotyping going on, wouldn't I be the one questioning YOUR vies on rape? But I don't, because I'm talking to you as Joshfast the person, and not as "Joshfast American his country is infamous for rape". I HAVE A SISTER who is early 20's, you don't think I take this seriously? I live here under a law where if something like this happens to my wife, sister, mother, whoever, I have to worry about the absence of a rape shield law and the presence of a consensual extra marital sex law. Who do you think is more concerned about this stuff, me or you? It's just speculation. I think she got trashed, couldn't remember what happened, and got into trouble because she didn't know about all the laws. It's happened to me before on a MUCH smaller scale, so I don't find it insane that it could happen to an expatriate on a larger scale. She went to jail for 8 months for breaking a law regarding consensual extra marital sex. She did not go to jail for claiming to get raped or for being raped. She made an accusation that she was raped. The police usually do everything in their power to help her, and I'm confident they did because whether they are good people or not they are forced to do so. They could not find any evidence of it. To me, the absence of any evidence that there was rape is not conclusive. Our knowledge that she over-drank is not conclusive. The several articles I've read where roughly 75% of women confuse being given date rape drugs with over drinking is not conclusive. My experience in this country about how these things are handled is not conclusive, and understandably irrelevant to others. None of these things are conclusive. But if I had to guess (given this body of information), versus the action of claiming rape, I would guess that it is less likely that she was in fact made drunk, given a date rape drug, dragged unnoticed from the bar to the staff quarters in a 24-hour staffed multinational hotel with CCTV cameras, raped, reported it, and police couldn't find a shred of evidence or any witnesses that it happened. I'll be honest, I'm feeling very insecure about the way I'm seeing this given the heavy flaming I'm receiving. If you ever become the executioner, I'll be the first one to apply (though I'm not sure how I feel about death sentence in general lol). Yes, that does help me understand your view better. I wish you didn't have to let the "he is from that region" thought creep in. But at least I see what you're saying, and I fully understand how you feel. I'd like to say that if someone showed me a video tomorrow showing them drugging her, dragging her to a room, abusing her, the police not taking her seriously, ANY of that, I would be the first person to be calling for their heads. I'm fully aware of the injustices that go on in my country, and I'm far more critical of them than outsiders are. lol For the love of God, I was one of the only male speakers at a women's day event just a few weeks ago talking about how we have to empower women in our country and remove the shackles of culture while making religion a more private matter (for which i got told off by authorities, a lot of men, and surprisingly even a few women). That's why this is really bugging me. I don't see this as being harsh on women or rape or whatever. I'm not saying she shouldn't get a fair trial, I'm not saying she definitely was not raped, I'm not saying she should have been jailed, I'm not saying that the absence of a rape shield law is good, I'm not saying that it's a good idea to have a legal system based on sharia, and I'm not saying that you are wrong for believing that she was raped. Think of it as if I were her lawyer and she was trying to be prove that she was raped. I would be looking at her right now and saying "I can see that you are very distressed and obviously you have been traumatized, but if we are going to court, it's my duty to tell you that we have very little evidence to support our claim so it will be close to impossible to convince the judge or the jury." Would I be an a-hole for saying that? That's the assessment I'm making here. Anyways, I know that's a lot of babble. I appreciate your thoughts, I hope I've clarified mine more, and I hope that they are more understandable.
Correct, it can't prove one didn't happen. If a woman says rape though and a rape kit conducted shows serious vaginal tearing, bleeding, etc. it's pretty strong support of a rape. In general rape is one of the hardest crimes to prove and that is one of the big reasons it is so under reported to law enforcement.
It can prove that it didn't happen if there is no evidence of any sexual intercourse whatsoever though, right? Which would rule out rape then.
With every post, Mathloom, i'm more convinced i'm falling for a ronnyesque april fools parody...I appreciate your coming in here to state your views (assuming you're not playing me), but each post i find more troubling then the one before. Somewhere, somehow, there must be a standard for trying a rape case that does not involve closed circuit TV showing dragging, drugging and raping. There is no test that can prove a rape did not happen. None. And if underreported rape is a problem in the US (which it is) you cannot believe it is less so in UAE. You've set an impossible standard, with the added bonus of exceedingly dire consequences for being unable to meet it. If you, in any way, accept or understand these processes in laws, you do have a disregard for women in general.
