Hamas goes crying to the UN/Arab League after the bombing and rocket fire that they committed! http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-hamas-calls-on-un-to-halt-israel-s-strikes-on-gaza-1.351807 Report: Hamas calls on UN to halt Israel's strikes on Gaza Al-Quds Al-Arabi reports that Hamas spokesman also called on Arab League to intervene to stop 'Israeli aggression' and stop Israel from 'exploiting regional instability to carry out massacres against Palestinians.' By Haaretz Service Hamas called on the United Nations on Friday to put an end to the "crime of the recent attacks on Gaza," referring to the stepped up Israeli air strikes on the Strip which have come in the wake of increased rocket fire, the pan-Arab daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi reported. The report, which was carried by Israeli media, also said that Taher al-Nunu, a spokesman for the Hamas regime, called on the Arab League to work urgently to stop "recent Israeli aggression." Israel must be prevented from "exploiting the instability in the region and world to carry out massacres against the Palestinian people," Taher said. Tensions along the Israel-Gaza border have been extremely tense over the course of the past week, with an increase in both rocket fire from Gaza and retaliatory air strikes by Israel on the Strip. In the most recent exchange, the Israel Air Force bombed an arms depot in northern Gaza, which according to Palestinian sources, belong to the military wing of Hamas. The attack was carried out around 8:30 P.M. Thursday local time, after two rockets and several mortars fired from Gaza at landed deep into Israel earlier in the day. In a separate report carried by Israeli media, contacts from Hamas and Israel are supposedly meeting with a third party in order to bring about a reduction in tensions between the sides. The report, which cannot be confirmed, came from the London based pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat. Despite the Israeli strikes on the Strip, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned on Thursday that if Hamas chooses to escalate cross-border tensions, Israel's response will be measured.
Why does it have to be so black and white. The truth is, both sides contribute to the problem and both sides need to contribute to a solution. At this point, it doesn't matter what started it, what matters is what perpetuates it, and the answer to that is both sides are responsible for the perpetuation of violence and the loss of life.
This is unfair. You said yourself that both sides hate each other. Israeli extremists and Palestinian extremists would both exactly the same way given the same circumstances. It was not that long ago that the Palestinians were engaging in heavy-handed retaliation while befriending the dominant world powers, and Jews were carrying out terrorist attacks. It is exactly in the same way that some of those terrorists ended up being politicians in a new nation that Hamas/Fatah members will end up being some of the politicians in a new nation. I also want to make clear that I'm disagreeing with BOTH you and Kwame. Neither of the "root" issues both of you mentioned are exclusive to one side. It is horrendous to think that Israelis are not equally hateful towards Arabs, and that the Palestinians would not attempt to "illegally" occupy all of that land given the chance. We're all mourning these losses, but that shouldn't affect your usually more impartial/objective view of the situation.
Wow the logic failures and jumping to conclusions in this post is amazing. What I said was what I meant. No excuse for terrorism. My belief that Israel is baiting trouble isn't an excuse for terrorism. It's simply a statement of fact that Israeli government members have admitted themselves in the past. Nothing about that excuses terrorism. Nothing about saying that it is justified to attack Israel by people they are oppressing, discriminating against, and occupying excuses terrorism. None of that excuses terrorism except in your own mind. In an earlier post you basically said that durvasa can say things about Israel and it isn't excusing terrorism but when other say those same things it is excusing terrorism. It's funny to see your logic go haywire, I just hope it doesn't become tiring which I fear it will.
I used the logical term OR... just making a counter-argument. He was the one that placed 1000% of the blame on Israel.
I agree. It is far from black and white. There are about a billion shades of grey here. I have a problem with all people who hold a moral superiority complex. It's just sickening to see a family stabbed, including a 3 month old AND then a terrorist attack that randomly killed/injured civilians met with rhetoric like "brutal occupation" or talking points about settlements. There is some serious backwards thinking in BOTH cultures. At some point I'll have to ignore posters like Kwame to refrain from being misconstrued as being so one-sided. Even though I am one, I don't value the life of a Jew over any human being. I'd prefer to judge people by the crap that comes out of their mouths and their actions in life rather than lump them into a group and generalize.
I'm going to assume you've never been in a war zone, or been in a situation where you actually have had to make a decision to take someone's life to save your own or someone else's. If you had you might be more understanding of the terrible predicament the average Gazan is in, caught between religious extremists that are more than willing to sacrifice him to their cause, as Israeli bombers are willing to accept the collateral damage of blowing up him and his family to protect theirs. It's called war, and it works like this because of people who think exactly like you. The only difference between you and the Hamas artillery man is that you have something to lose. If this is difficult to understand, I suggest Death Wish 2, or maybe some vintage Chuck Norris to provide you with the necessary escapism to comfort your limited world-view.
Let's focus on this for a second, and the difference in the approach I have and the approach you have, because it's slightly disturbing on your part. I said there was no excuse for terrorism and criticized Israel. In my mind legitimate criticism of a nation isn't an excuse for terrorism. But in what you wrote you seem to jump to the idea that any criticism of a nation is an excuse for terrorism. That's slightly troubling. As durvasa said Israel should consider making moves for their own citizens' security. They should also do them because they are the right things to do. Criticizing a nation for it's actions, occupation and oppression of a people in my mind isn't an excuse for terrorism, and the idea that terrorism is the way to fight those injustices isn't part of my thinking. Why is it part of your thinking? You said in your post that the things I mentioned were excuses for terrorism even though I started off saying NOTHING excuses terrorism. How did you develop the idea that criticizing a nation's injustices excuses terrorism? I'm curious I don't think I've ever communicated with anyone who thought that way before.
Assuming that Israel will remain a Jewish state and there will be no right of return. Options: 1. Peaceful negotiation. Dismantling of settlements. Removal of minority extremists in government from power. Reality of Option 1: Neither sides budge enough to make any progress. As soon as one settlement is dismantled, more terrorist attacks occur and the minority extremists in power punish everybody by voting for new settlements. 2. Completely destroying the offensive capabilities of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. in Gaza, West Bank, and neighboring areas. Reality of Option 2: The second Israel fires one bullet, pro-Arab countries gang up on Israel in the UN putting them on a "shot-clock" to achieve their military objectives. Many civilians die, mostly palestinians because terrorists are cowards that hide behind civilians. ------------- Where are the Palestinians getting all these missiles from? A long cessation of rocket fire (I'm talking 5-10+ years) would go a long way in building trust with the majority of Israelis.
Are you talking about the land they grab in the settlement expansions? - Agree Are you talking about the land they took when war was waged against them? Spoils of war - Disagree. Are you talking about the land the UN sanctioned as sovergn? - Disagree. You have a Theologically ruled country (Iran) which declares to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and arms the terrorist groups that attack Israel and the people that suffer are the Palestinians. But I don't see Iran or Syria helping out any refugees whatsoever. So it boils down to Iran or Extremist Islam vs. West or by proxy Israel. These 'spats' are simply proxy jabs. It's kind of funny to me how Iran spouts off this outlandish BullSh... and what do you hear from people on the left? Crickets! If Israel were to say the same thing this board would be flipping out, running to the defense of the poor Iraninan regime because their angry that the US gives Aid and provided protection to Israel. If you look at the REAL root of the problem, it is Fundemental Extemism vs. Western Culture. Once you wake up and recognize it things become a little less foggy.
I suggest a Teddy Bear for you.... Seriously, you hit the nail on the head. The Gazan people allow this to happen. If a neighborhood gang operated in your hood. Would you sit back in fear? Would you protect your family by pointing out who's doing the banging and be active in your community to see that the youth doesn't follow their lead?
The root cause is economic disparity. To think otherwise is to assume that there's something noble about anything that goes on here.
I would protect my family by trying to leave if I could afford it, and if I couldn't by keeping my mouth shut so that no one disappears me or throws me off a rooftop like they did the people who weren't so prudent (which were many). There's not much of a community left to be active in, and for the people that are there, making sure that their family isn't starving or singled out for religious punishment is probably a more pressing need. The only real resistance to Hamas left are from Marxist groups like the PFLP. And guess what? They are the ones doing most of the shelling of Israel, because fighting the Occupation is more more important to them. Opposing Israel IS for them opposing Hamas, because they see Hamas as accommodating Israel in order to stay in power. It's a cluster**** & a den of human misery and its not because no one has tried to do something about it.
The ONLY real option is to give the Palestinians their own sovergn state. But that still won't quash the Iranian driven terrorist groups. They've stated it's their goal to see Israel and the US wiped off the face of the earth. It's their mission statement.
