how would you define "illegally occupied?" would you make the same argument about the continental US? a fact's a fact, let's give it back?
How sad. Unfortunately, you'd have to be delusional to not expect this. I called it in a previous thread. Israeli civilians will ultimately suffer the consequences at the hands of terrorists because their government allows extremists to continue construction and abruptly end peace negotiations. I hope this ultimately leads to revamped governments. For the time being, we have to be prepared since many innocent Palestinians will die in exchange for innocent israelis.
bull ****ing ****. Israeli citizens will ultimately suffer the consequences at the hands of terrorists because of the actions of those terrorists. full stop. to say otherwise is to provide legitimacy to terrorism.
Very interesting to read the leftist (FranchiseBlade) and Islamist-leaning (Mathloom) ideologues' desperate attempts to pin the blame for this act of terrorism on Israel.
There will never be a Palestinian state. Israel is expanding and will eventually have enough settlements throughout the west bank that there is no way a viable state can be carved from it. It's pretty obvious. Israel will gladly sacrifice some of it's people to realize a greater dream.
No one is saying terrorism is ok but to suggest that Israel has nothing to do with the resentment and anger of Palestinians is nonsense. And when you live with such anger and hostility it becomes easy for terrorism to foment. Not agreeing with any of it but the roots of it is fairly easy to see.
Do you think the settlement building helps, hurts, or has no impact on Israel's security? And if you (or anyone else) picks the middle answer, that is not the same thing as absolving the terrorists of moral responsibility for their crimes.
I just think it's funny when someone like Mathloom goes to great lengths to explain that "the responsibility lies with nobody but the terrorist himself, the ideology has nothing to do with it" when an Islamist kills people at Frankfurt airport, but in this case, he blames Israel. Do you see the contradiction here? In one case, he dismisses an ideological/religious motive, in this case, he not only recognizes an ideological motive, he also assigns blame - to the victims' side. And to answer your question, I am against the settlements and I think they have a negative impact on Israel's security, but as you say, this still does not absolve the terrorists and their puppet masters from legal and moral responsibility for their crimes.
Mathloom can speak for himself, but I did not read his comments as absolving the terrorists of responsibility. If we can agree that the settlements are wrong and has a negative impact on Israel's security, then surely the administrators who endorse settlement building are not blameless. I don't think pointing out their responsibility in any way diminishes the crime or justifies the terrorist's actions.
No, you are absolutely wrong. They are blameless in the terrorist actions. They are to blame because it is a bad decision politically, etc., but the terrorists (and their puppet masters) have to bear the responsibility for 100 % of the blame for this crime.
So what there's no room to discuss Israeli policy towards the Palestinians? Yes terrorism is always wrong and this case is no exception. However, if you do want to solve terrorism you should probably spend some time to find out the root causes.
I disagree. I'm not a fortune teller. These terrorists ALWAYS want to do something. But they chose to do it now. There is a reason, as sick and twisted as it may be, to do this specifically now. I said, and many were in agreement, that this would happen shortly. Feel free to use the search function, I think it's in the thread where we discussed how the US was the only country to not go along with the resolution condemning Israeli settlement construction during negotiations. There is no legitimacy to terrorism. It's not like I'm saying that the punishment for these guys should be LESS because of the Israeli government's actions. The terrorists bear the entire share of responsibility in a fair trial. But you would have to be a coward and a fool to spit in the faces of Israeli and Palestinian moderate normal citizens to deny that this is a reaction to several recent events.
ATW, I'm absolutely disgusted and sickened by your attempts to hijack this thread to satisfy your morally bankrupt agenda of painting me as an Israeli-hater. In my first post and in this one, I have made it clear that I hold the terrorists responsible, that this is a terrible story, and I blame both governments for the situation. The only thing that you can cling on to is that in the entire sequence of events, I said that among the three political parties (Israel/West Bank/Gaza), Israel made the most recent significant/major political mis-step. I completely reject the notion that this is an action for which we can not be critical of Israel's attitude and policy towards the negotiations (not a crime), while simultaneously holding these terrorists fully responsible for their actions (100% of the crime). I urge you though to continue to refer to me as Islamist-leaning. Truly, if that's what you believe, I want you to know in advance that it is one label which I am happy for you to throw around about me, as I am confident that it will further erode the little credibility you have left on this board, while it won't harm me due to the sheer ludicrousness of it.
you don't think palestenian civilians will die? and at the usual ratio of 100:1. Your statement is completely false, both parties are guilty, and its the civilians in the middle that pay for it. To call the death of civilians, what ever side it may be to such an extent is sad.
This is hilarious, I just wanted to quote it for the dozens of people who have you on ignore. *Italics in the quote are my words.
Let me just say.. without political agenda.. that innocent people are always the ones who pay. One of my good friends lives in Jerusalem and her one son stands at the bus stop where the latest bombs went off and the other is sometimes on the bus (to meet his brother) where the people were injured... thankfully one left early and was farther down the bus line so he and her other son were both safe The people who were injured were not to blame for whatever the bomber was protesting, so how does it help their cause by blowing people up? That's all I've got.
