It's clear to me that this does exist in some segments of the black community. Icehouse, would you say these types of social pressures help or hurt black youth in becoming a "successful" adult?
I didn't see the Fab Five documentary but just speculating could Jalen Rose's comments have been overplayed just to gin up controversy and improve the ratings for the documentary? Did Jalen Rose say he wanted to go to Duke but they wouldn't accept him so he feels slighted he wasn't taken while Grant Hill was? Jalen Rose has had a relatively successful NBA career and I would find it surprising that he is somehow bitter about this still now. As far as the appeal of Shane Battier I've never felt that people liked him because he is a white black man who went to Duke, personally I find him going to Duke a mark against him (yes I am a Duke hater). His appeal is that he works hard on court and is very personable off court. Its some of the same appeal why people like Chuck Hayes or Carl Landry those where guys who work hard on court and generally seem like nice guys off court yet no one is questioning how black either of those guys are.
no one is questioning how black shane is first of all. secondly if you don't see that's fine, but I know its there for others
I wrote that some people see him as how they want blacks to be. that's not knocking him at all. secondly, I don't think its why he's popular either, but I think its an added appeal to some
Yes to some. For example, if I am black and I think things prevelant to my culture are hinderances to success then picking up trends prevelant to other cultures may be empowering to me. And I would like to point out that being educated and not confirming can be just as empowering. For example keeping things prevelant to my culture, i.e. deciding not to cut my dreads, and still making it. Wow, so much misinformation here that I don't know where to start. The thug mentality has nothing to do with slavery, or black people in general. Bad boys are always more popular than the straight and narrow dudes. Why do you think "thugs" like Clint Eastwood and John Wayne are so celebrated (the thugs they played on TV)? Why are mafia movies so popular? Why does gangsta rap sell so well in suburbia? The slang that blacks use today typically derives from music (see hip hop) which was birthed in the 70s/80s and has nothing to do with slavery or an illusion of heritage. If anything, I would say it was a heritage birthed by youth that the rest of the world is now emulating (the cultural impact of the Fab 5 is a perfect example). This really isn't clear so if I incorrectly assume something then my apologies. First, proper American English technically isn't "proper English". It changed throughout this countries history and continues to change. What's "proper" just depends on what is accepted by the masses. For example, "swagger" is pure slang but is an accepted verb today. There are many ways to stand up for equality. Using education as an example (since the misconception seems to revolve around this), one way is to blend in and put yourself in a situation where you are immersed in white culture more, such as when I attended River Oaks or went to UT. Another way is to choose to immerse yourself in black culture more, such as when I attended Booker T. Washington and Morehouse, and choose to be educated at black institutions. Both are stands for equality, since it's best for black kids to have the option of what environment they want to be in and you need folks fighting to keep opportunities at both open (breaking down barriers for inclusion and also keeping the things that you fought for in the past). How you act in both environments is up to you, and there is nothing wrong with identifying with the trends in either culture. However, neither has anything to do with being subservient to a white mentality or a culture based on something that I was deprived of. I would argue that the black community and culture was actually stronger when we were deprieved. My personal opinion is that things really didn't start to go downhill until after the Vietnam war. I say that to say that your comments about a culture that's a byproduct of slavery, and folks reactions to that, are way off base. Again, I typically hear folks being called oreo's or Tom's when they choose to disassociate, or put themselves in a position that's looking down on you. For example, I went to the Engineering Program at Booker T. The school (majority black) is completely segregated by whether you or in the magnet program or not. As long as you didn't look down on the kids not in the magnet program then you typically didn't have any problems with them. But once you started acting elitist, i.e. "I don't go to Booker T, I go to the High School of Engineering Professions", then folks have an issue with you. But this theme of poor blacks not liking educated or well off ones....or hate on folks becoming educated....it's way off base (as far as making a blanket statement to describe an entire set of people). My experiences have been that when folks in poverty see that you can make it out, then they push you to make it out. And that's in black poverty: <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t9Qp5iKPZ38" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> And white: <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fpnFFHxg5a0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I would say it's clear to me that this happens in some segments of EVERY community. I think it's wrong to cast blanket statements of something always being the case for something that happens some of the time. I agree that this type of social pressure can hurt youth of any race.
Not saying you were knocking him for that but you are saying that is one of the reasons why people like him. It might but personally I don't see that as much of a factor. Honestly I never really considered Shane Battier's race much of a factor in assessing him. He is a very light skinned black man but if everything else being the same if he didn't work hard on court I doubt people would appreciate him. Even then there has still been a lot of negativity on Battier, just check GARM threads on him the last two years, regarding him being an offensive liability. None of that has to do with whether people perceive him as being more white or less black but what he brings to the court.
when i was in hs, white kids who associated with the blacks were certainly frowned upon. maybe that won't hurt them economically, but think of the implications of saying don't hang with those black kids or don't listen to their music. it can cause a rift for everyone and that's no good.
Pgabriel; I hope you don't mind me asking this but I want to hear what you opinion is directly and not just your perception of other's. When you think about Shane Battier do you think of him as being a black man, both physically and culturally, or do you think of him as a black man who is a white man culturally?
honestly, I think he's a white man culturally, and it doesn't matter to me. I don't think he tries to be, i think he is what he is. funny, both he and obama are half white, and obama's father isn't even from here but I see obama as more black culturally.
When I see Shane Battier I see him as a guy who I would want to sleep with my sister. Just seems like an all around good guy.
I agree with pgab - Battier is more acceptable because he is a white black man. He is less confusing to the majority of Whitey...it is the whole "he is so well spoken angle" multiplied by the idea that he probably listened to Hoot back in the day and that was as black as he got. I don't think Obama is really more black culturally than Battier but Obama certainly tries to he more black at times. He walks a fine line - he was raised international but white and that helps him overall but he also knows that if he ignores black culture that could hurt him in the black community. Now if both guys were not famous and walking around on the street they would be seen as a lot more black than they are because they are known.
We have have RIGHTs . . . You have the right to do something . . . i have the right not to like it. Should a person's right to NOT LIKE someone's behavior be curtailed and restricted? See it is not about RIGHTS . . .it is about culture Muslims should have the Right to critisize America without being called Terrorist sympathizers. . .but that don't seem to happen!!!! Rocket River
This whole "acting black" vs "acting white" thing is really lame. People seem far too preoccupied with trying to be different from one another. How you act has nothing to do with your skin color. It is a personal choice. Own it.
I think Obama may be culturally more black, because his appearance is more black, and has been treated by most of those he interacts with, at least initially like other black people. Those reactions or expectations probably helped shape his cultural identity at least a little bit. Shane Battier may look more white and may elicit different reactions from people he's interacted with.
Ever met someone and thought. . . They Acting Snotty or Arrogant or . . . i dunno how old you are but . . the old term was 'Putting on airs" Putting on airs = acting snobby/acting behind a facade. Same thing basically ONE MORE THING: You have to understand the Historical significance of 'acting white' . . . the connotation is to PASSING. Ever see a movie "Imitation of Life" <--- very deep and disturbing movie. Most black women i know . . .end up crying at the end. Rocket River
You have a point there Blade. And he did marry a black woman. I wonder how much chance ha had with white women through law school. Of course if he was a basketball player instead of lawyer politician his odds of marrying a white woman would have shot up!
even though Obama was brought up around practically zero blacks? Really none in his home life, and there are very few in Hawaii and Indonesia? He was raised by whites.
