Respectfully, I'm not all that interested to hear your spin on the embarrassing Webber thing. I mean, NBA Cliche-ing 101: this league is a team sport -- no one player can single-handedly win you a playoff series. So what happens when that player fails once when it matters the most...and twice...and a third time...and so forth? At what point does it start to become a pattern? At what point do you say to yourself, "Yeah, this dude just can't deliver when it counts?". I only ask because this is clearly something you cannot quantify therefore I question whether or not you would ever seriously acknowledge such a point. Look, we get it: Kobe is overrated in crunchtime. The numbers back that up. His resume says otherwise but the numbers still tell the story. Okay, fine. All I'm saying is I'm going to take these observations of mine (namely, the intangible aspects) and apply them to this silly debate. Essentially, I'm not going to let the fact that Webber technically shot better in crunchtime than Kobe stop me from putting the ball in Kobe's hands. Why? Because I can recognize the distinction between the two players and that one of them just so happens to be a gutless joker. If anything, it's a tactical debate. You like your stats, I like my gut feelings and instincts. I'm not sitting here saying, "I'm right, you're wrong". Keep that in mind.
You still don't get it. It's not "spin". I am deliberately avoiding spin by posting the only facts we have, which are statistics. "Spin" is when you say, "yeah, I know the stats say otherwise, but I'm going with my 'gut' on this one..." I can see how numbers take some of the magic out of the game. People want to believe in heroes and villains and players that elevate their play when the stakes are the highest. I am a huge fan of the game and don't believe we need to inject those artificial elements to make it exciting. The reason I dislike Kobe Bryant, aside from his cadre of clueless sycophant fans, is that he plays the game in a way that encourages this kind of drama. The guy in the video calls it "hero ball", and it basically means going outside the structure of the team to elevate the moment for oneself. You see it all the time with Kobe (and others) down the stretch of games-- taking bad shots with guys draped over them, or three feet behind the 3pt line on the off-chance that when it goes in we have... (wait for it) ... magic! But what we really see is that most of the time these are terrible decisions and those come across in the numbers. It's why, despite what you want to believe, Kobe is just as bad in pressure situations as all-time choker Chris Webber, despite having 2x the talent. You are going to believe what you want and that's perfectly fair. I simply ask to all serious fans of the game to not just trust their instincts all the time, because instincts, gut feelings, heroic recollections, these are all fallable. Stats aren't flawless, but they at least aren't biased.
We don't trust instinct, we check rings. Number is futile without playoff success. And if you want facts, Kobe hit 10-21 last 3 seasons when the game was on the line.
First, Webber is mislabeled a "choker" merely because of one game way back in college. Then once we realize that's simply not the case and the dude is a perennial Game 7 (or elimination game) egg layer your argument shifts to: "Oh ok, well....he rebounded and passed the ball too (which is an interesting subplot to this whole discussion since I purposely left Kobe's contributions in other areas out of this conversation). And not only that but teams play better defense in the playoffs and in Game 7's so it makes perfect sense that he shot poorly." Paraphrased, of course. To me, that's spin. "Spinning" the weight of your original dubious assertion regarding Webber to both make excuses for him and point out his contributions in other areas (something we hadn't done up until that point). That's what I was referring to.
I was genuine in wondering why you thought Webber was a choker. I know he had the timeout incident in college. The main pressure situation I remember him being in was Game 7 in 2002 (I don't think his teams were ever considered favorites in any of the other elimination games). I watched that game with great interest and he played very well down the stretch (he and Bibby really the only ones doing anything in crunchtime). For the game, his numbers were 9-21 20 pts 8 rbs 11 ast 1 stl 2 blk Which is a very good game, especially considering the circumstances. To insinuate as you did that Robert Horry (6-17 9 pts 12 rbs 5 ast 1 stl 0 blk) outplayed him is spin, if anything. The point about elimination games being harder to score in is not "spin" either-- that is a fact, backed up by numbers. It's logical too, because in those games (and generally in the playoffs), the top players are playing more, and the top players tend to be better defenders. So while 38% shooting is still terrible, it is not as bad as if that were a general average. This is a very special case. The reason I posted Kobe's stats was to show that-- he's just as bad. I'm sure if you pulled up AI, LeBron, whatever, you'd see the same thing. There is no magic here.
I was only referring to the regular season. The Cavs with Kobe instead of Lebron would have still been one of the top 3 teams in the east but I can't say they would have beat the Celtics and if i had to bet on it I'd say they lose. My point was that the Cavs roster last year was better than the old Lakers teams Kobe had with smush parker, brian cook, and luke "i can't even get off the now" walton playing big minutes.
Perhaps, but his cynics at least provide basketball insight because to be a Kobe cynic you have to look beyond all of the hype and take him for what he really is-- a great player who happens to also be a chucker who likes to play hero and ignore his teammates. You guys may mock that video, but the guy who made it (Bruce Blitz) knows a hell of a lot more about basketball than you or me or anyone on this site. For example: <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bbDU-XtR9c0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Sure, the title is obviously inflammatory, but the actual video is just spot-on excellent analysis. Kobe sycophants in particular should take note. This-- not SportsCenter highlights-- is what basketball is about.
clippy, you have no credibility. Take your traveling circus to the Heat board where Bron Bron ****-gobbling is welcomed with open arms.
Sorry, I responded to you because I didn't realize you were just another clueless Kobe fanboi. Into the ignore box you go!
Face the facts, punk. ESPN kindly broke down the closing abilities of NBA stars for ignorant, obsessive trolls like yourself. Let me break it down for you in Layman's terms so that you can get it through your head -- Kobe has been efficient and effective in late-game situations over the last 3 years, while LeBron has been down right atrocious. Wipe the tears from your eyes, and take a look at the numbers.
3/10 game? Simple, this is the breakdown in final 2 minutes. Kobe was fouled 4 times and no call. Z one goaltending no call, one flop of LeBron for 2FT. This was Stern at his best.
Son, you should request Obama to upgrade the computer in the shelter. AT&T DSL works just fine for me.
Since the '04 season, Kobe is shooting 35 percent (22-for-63) on go-ahead shots in the final 30 seconds. LeBron and Wade? Twenty-seven percent (29-for-107).
How is it that Webber choked in Game 7 against the Lakers in 2002 because he shot 9-21, but Kobe is remembered as being a hero in that game despite the fact that he shot 10-26?
