first bolded part is correct, as chancellor is gender neutral. plus, she isn't really the most feminine lady in the world
Here's the thing I don't get. I can live with the fact ATW has an personal opinion that he thinks there's something fundamentally wrong with the Muslim faith for various reasons he has posted. (even though I disagree with him). What I don't get is, why is he constantly spamming D&D with articles and events to justify his belief knowing a lot of posters here strongly oppose his opinion. It's like he won't stop til everyone agrees with him. Even though every time he brings the topic up, it will end up with the same old arguments. I mean what is he trying to achieve with this anyways on a basketball forum. ATW seems like a decent poster to me, I don't know why he is trolling like this.
Well said and I think you nailed something many of us were thinking. Whether you agree or disagree with him(I do think he is a smart overall guy despite this major disagreement), he just constantly posts and repost the same notions to the point where it is redundant, excessive, and annoying.
I knew that Chancellor was gender-neutral; I didn't realize that that photo I was looking at was a female! :grin: And that first name Schicklgruber?!? No clue there-- not like Helga or something.
I don't agree with ATW's comments and think he does have a problem but this is going overboard. First off this is not a German site so I don't think German speech laws apply. This is private cyber territory and what Clutch and Clutch crew says goes not the laws of other countries. To the extent than any country's laws apply those would be US laws and US laws are very permissive in regard to speech. Secondly while I don't agree with ATW, leaving aside the issue that this is Clutch's cyber territory, I believe he has the right to say whatever he wants no matter how distasteful or annoying I find it. I understand Germany has laws limiting hate speech that are different than the US's but in principle I don't agree with such laws. As I have said before even to ATW I don't believe that you uphold liberty by suppressing it. In that case it was in regard to religious practice, Hijab bans, but that also applies to speech. So I wouldn't turn him into German authorities because I don't think clutchfans is subject to German laws but also because I don't agree in principle with such laws. If you don't like what ATW is saying and you are making no headway with engaging him in a discussion, because he isn't here to discuss or debate, the best thing to do is just ignore him.
Not serious. Just remember the "controversy." More interested in the office and the words than the official. Gender has no role.
LOL @ anyone fearing for the safety of a people who are known for running around with bombs strapped to their chests. I'm sure the articles ATW posts on the net are of grave danger to them.
I'm going to radically disagree here. Why is it that only the Rights gets lambasted for not changing their minds about some issue? Go back and re-read some of the criticisms; ATW's points are largely mis-represented by his critics. ATW regularly cites moderate Muslim thinkers and writers in these postings. His arguments while insistent are not passionate. I don't sense a scintilla of hate in his thinking or writing. I see more puzzlement. Almost no one here ever changes their mind, but seems to be the privilege of the Left and the some of the Vast Middle to criticize the Right for not budging on issues. It's clearly and totally a two-way street and the fact that no one recognizes that just indicates the great bias of the population back here. No offense, RJ, because you are one of the most even-tempered, fair-minded posters back here but you've fallen into the same trap. The D&D Mantra: The Right is expected to change because they are Wrong.
ATW only references moderate muslims if they are criticizing Islam. ATW regularly makes connections based on his dislike for Islam trying to pin things on Islamic fundamentalists that the facts don't necessarily support. The evidence that he has an agenda when talking about Islam, and that agenda is against Islam isn't really debatable. He does everything he can in order to get responses that he can misconstrue and twist into being extremist. Others may also have an agenda. That's often true as well.
Moderate Muslims don't criticize Islam; they may criticize radical elements of Islam, I think. That is all the difference in the world, isn't it? You are doing exactly what you accuse him of doing. His dislike for Islam is only an opinion. It is obvious that there are lots of things going wrong in some segments of the world of Islam. They been killing a lot of innocent people around the world in the last decade. Are the events he cites not really happening. Those who are committing these atrocities are usually doing so in the name of Allah. Is that even debatable? I see your side twisting his remarks FAR MORE than him twisting the remarks of your side. He is regularly convicted of condemning all of Islam when he regularly cites Muslim sources to buttress his argument. We all have agendas. That word is tinged with negative connotations. ATW is very much above-the-table with his. To me, that is honest. To be sure it is a recurrent topic with him but the things your side accuses him of is ridiculous for the main part. We all can get excessive especially when the heat gets turned up. I take it with a grain of salt.
This will be the last post in reference to this because it isn't really worth my time. ATW takes events that really do happen, and contorts and twists to make causation Islam itself. Whatever Muslim leaders and sources ATW quotes is only in an effort to further cast aspersions on Islam. He ignores, belittles, or only pays lip service to any evidence that the vast majority if Muslims aren't bent on destruction or cruel to women, or supporters and believers in terrorism. Case in point, when Judoka mentioned his real experience in the largest Muslim nation in the world as being mostly positive, ATW found isolated incidents and belittled Judoka's experience. He tried to pain the Muslim Brotherhood as a threat to taking over Egypt, and being responsible for things that it couldn't be shown they were responsible for. He tries to use language to make isolated incidents seem like they are the norm even when it can't be shown to be the case. Defend him and accuse the other side of doing that more if you'd like. It just isn't worth the discussion. Edit::: because I know it isn't really fair for me to say my side and not let you get your side in, feel free to e-mail through the board, and I'll let you have your say, and possibly respond. But I'm done talking about it in this thread.
so is ATW the new giddyup? http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=142530&highlight=islam http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=114347&highlight=islam http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=102384&highlight=islam http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=100593&highlight=islam
Translation: Because you know that you are lying and twisting facts in order to maintain your warped view of the world, and that you will just continue embarrassing yourself if you keep doing it. Interesting. What exactly is there to "contort and twist" about Asia Bibi being sentenced to death for an alleged insult against the prophet? What is there to "contort and twist" about people blowing themselves up, killing others, and citing Islam as the reason for doing so? What is there to "contort and twist" about women being forced into mobile jails? These things happen. Just because you want to be in denial about there being only one common theme and element behind these things doesn't mean that reporting them means "contorting and twisting" them. Interesting, once again, that you would try to "contort and twist" my statements and make a great effort to do so, but you remained silent - once again - when some complete lunatic vent on a little crazy run and said he wants to alert authorities about something that was supposedly said on this message board, when people continually called me Nazi and Hitler, etc. etc. Shows your true - "fair and balanced" - colors. Nonsense. I said as much many times, and I stated my respect for many very civilized Muslims on this board, including some who vehemently disagree with me on some issues, like showtang. It's the other way around: Judoka's experience is an isolated incident. I just reported some incidents - which happen on a wider scale, by the way - I only reported samples, far from everything that is happening there. I belittled Judoka's attempt at generalizing from his brief visit, because the tone of his post was a grandstanding one, not because I wouldn't believe that that is what he perceived. I still think the Muslim Brotherhood is a threat to Egypt and the region: 1) Just ask the Copts there. 2) Just read this: Egyptian Islamist wishes to ‘see Israel wiped off map’ During visit to Iran, Muslim Brotherhood official praises Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, accuses Israel of "foreign intervention." A prominent member of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood this week became the first member of the Islamist group to visit Iran, where he praised Tehran’s leadership and denounced Israel. The New York Post reported that Kamal El Helbawy – a London-based Islamic scholar and Brotherhood representative widely known as the movement’s face in the West – told his hosts he wished to see Egypt become, like Iran, “a true Islamic state.” “Egypt and the world of Islam as a whole need leaders like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,” he said, and “should join a new world order with Iran and Venezuela, plus Hezbollah and Hamas to chase away the Americans. “Every night when I go to bed, I pray to wake up the next day to see Israel is wiped off the map,” the Brotherhood leader reportedly said. Last month, during protests to oust Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Helbawy told Iran’s Al-Alam television network, “The only foreign intervention in this revolution is that of Israel. They destroyed the gas pipeline, so that the revolutionaries would be accused of using explosives. No one would accept a destructive Iranian role in Egypt, or elsewhere. We think highly of a country whose president is important, courageous and has a vision.” http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=211213 Yeah, let's just disregard that because it doesn't fit into FranchiseBlade's warped view of the world . Let's just pretend it didn't happen. The Muslim Brotherhood are saints. "Isolated incidents" like 83 % of the Palestinian population not having objections to suicide bombings against civilians? "Isolated incidents" like a "blasphemy law" being in place in Pakistan, a multi-million country, that threatens people with death if they are only accused of supposedly saying something negative about their prophet? "Isolated incidents" like the "religious police" in some parts of Indonesia terrorizing women and forcing them to wear something different? Do you really want me to go on? What is "isolated" about these incidents? Do you think people don't suffer from those things? Why do you try to artificially downplay what is happening, just because it does not fit your foolish leftist view of the world? Right...get your nonsense in and then be too much of a coward to engage in a public discussion of your nonsense. And by the way, thank you giddyup, for your fair points. I accept the criticism about being repetitive.
ATW go back to the thread about Egypt, and I've shown you to do this there and elsewhere. Outside of that it isn't worth engaging you debate.
Once again, you are just a disingenuous little girl who would turn a blind eye when people who are on "his side of the argument" come up with the gravest insults like Hitler and Nazi and totally ridiculous stuff like "rah rah rah I want to report ATW to the authorities, he is a meanie", but then suddenly seems to wake up and try to act holier than thou when it comes to "twisting and contorting" anything I have said.
