"Instead of ending tax cuts to the top two percent, America needs to get money from the teachers." -Jon Stewart.
No pollster out there uses samples much over 1,000, which is a quarter the size of Hearne. How about YOU get back to us when you have learned a little something about statistical sampling.
I am aware of poll standards, and I don't question there is divide. The remark has more to do with me not liking the standard of polls...
If they shouldn't have been granted free then it is the fault of the state officials who agreed to their requests. Nothing the union workers have was taken or stolen, or forced from anyone. They bargained for an agreement. The state officials agreed. Stop blaming them for asking for a good deal which they've already agreed to change.
I haven't forgotten about you, ROX, it's just that I find it hard to respond to someone who honestly seems to think the benefits received by the teachers (and by inference, the state employees) were "free." And just so you'll know where I'm coming from, my family, including my in-laws, are filled with teachers and professors, with some department chairs, and one the Dean of a college at a major Houston university. Here's something for you to read: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin. Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers. How can this be possible? Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future. Many of us are familiar with the concept of deferred compensation from reading about the latest multi-million dollar deal with some professional athlete. As a means of allowing their ball club to have enough money to operate, lowering their own tax obligations and for other benefits, ball players often defer payment of money they are to be paid to a later date. In the meantime, that money is invested for the ball player’s benefit and then paid over at the time and in the manner agreed to in the contract between the parties. Does anyone believe that, in the case of the ball player, the deferred money belongs to the club owner rather than the ball player? Is the owner simply providing this money to the athlete as some sort of gift? Of course not. The money is salary to be paid to the ball player, deferred for receipt at a later date. A review of the state’s collective bargaining agreements – many of which are available for review at the Wisconsin Office of State Employees web site - bears out that it is no different for state employees. The numbers are just lower. Check out section 13 of the Wisconsin Association of State Prosecutors collective bargaining agreement – “For the duration of this Agreement, the Employer will contribute on behalf of the employee five percent (5%) of the employee’s earnings paid by the State. ” Johnston goes on to point out that Governor Walker has gotten away with this false narrative because journalists have failed to look closely at how employee pension plans work and have simply accepted the Governor’s word for it. Because of this, those who wish the unions ill have been able to seize on that narrative to score points by running ads and spreading the word that state employees pay next to nothing for their pensions and that it is all a big taxpayer give-away. If it is true that pension and benefit money is money that already belongs to state workers, you might ask why state employees would not just take the cash as direct compensation and do their own investing for their retirement through their own individual retirement plans. Again, simple. Mr. Johnston continues- Expecting individuals to be experts at investing their retirement money in defined contribution plans — instead of pooling the money so professional investors can manage the money as is done in defined benefit plans — is not sound economics. The concept, at its most basic, is buying wholesale instead of retail. Wholesale is cheaper for the buyers. That is, it saves taxpayers money. The Wisconsin State Investment Board manages about $74.5 billion for an all-in cost of $224 million. That is a cost of about 30-cents per $100, which is good but not great. However it is far less than many defined contribution plans, where costs are often $1 or more per $100.” If the Wisconsin governor and state legislature were to be honest, they would correctly frame this issue. They are not, in fact, asking state employees to make a larger contribution to their pension and benefits programs as that would not be possible- the employees are already paying 100% of the contributions. What they are actually asking is that the employees take a pay cut. That may or may not be an appropriate request depending on your point of view – but the argument that the taxpayers are providing state workers with some gift is as false as the argument that state workers are paid better than employees with comparable education and skills in private industry. Maybe state workers need to take pay cut along with so many of their fellow Americans. But let’s, at the least, recognize this sacrifice for what it is rather than pretending they’ve been getting away with some sweet deal that now must be brought to an end. UPDATE: Since this post was published earlier today, many commenters have made the point that, while it is true that it is state employees’ own money that funds the pension plan, when the pension plan comes up short it is up to the taxpayer to make up the difference. There is some truth in this – but not as much as many seem to think. Because the pension plan is a defined benefit plan – requiring the state to pay the agreed benefit for however long the employee may live in retirement- if the employee lives longer than the actuarial plan anticipated, the taxpayer is on the hook for the pay-outs during the longer life. But is this the fault of the state employees? The pension agreements are the result of collective bargaining. That means that the state has every opportunity to properly calculate the anticipated lifespan and then add on some margin for error. What’s more, the losses taken by the pension funds over the past few years can hardly be blamed on the employees. Take a look at what Sue Urahn, an expert on the subject at the Pew Center on the States, has to say about this when describing the $1 trillion gap that existed between the $2.35 trillion states had set aside to pay for employees’ retirement benefits and the $3.35 trillion price tag of those promises.at the end of 2008- To a significant degree, the $1 trillion reflects states’ own policy choices and lack of discipline: •• failing to make annual payments for pension systems at the levels recommended by their own actuaries; •• expanding benefits and offering cost-of-living increases without fully considering their long-term price tag or determining how to pay for them; and •• providing retiree health care without adequately funding it Via Pew Center on the States That is the point. While the governor of Wisconsin is busy trying to shift the blame to the workers in an effort to put an end to collective bargaining, the reality is that it was the state who punted on this – not the employees. Further, by the state employee unions agreeing to the deal proposed by Walker on their benefits (as they have despite Walker’s refusal to accept it) they are taking on much - and possibly all – of the obligation out of their own pockets. As a result, the taxpayers do not contribute to the public employee pension programs so much as serve as insurers. If their elected officials have been sloppy , the taxpayers must stand behind it. But if the market continues to perform as it has been performing this past year, don’t be surprised if the funding crisis begins to recede. If it does, what will you say then? http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2...ntribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
NOODLES WORKERS UNITE! <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8M3DLGP4UKQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> http://www.noodles.com/
Speaking of noodles, if you'd like to donate some food or water to the protesters, these folks are working. I just donated another $50 worth of water last night. For fresh fruit and veggie trays the Madison Fresh Market: 608-256-0000. To supply WATER, Capitol Center Foods at 608-255-2616
Not really, ..This seems more interpretation than proof that they had the option to receive salary instead of pension... Besides, taxpayers pay the compensation menu regardless...That is inclusive of regular salary, part 1 pension, part 2 pension and so on and so forth till the culmination of compensation is unbalanced to what taxpayers can burden... ...Further, taxpayers DO pay teacher salary, as they do in all states and public services as they should...The question is should they pay more than is sustainable?...no longer, imo....Should teachers get pension/retirement totally free in addition to a generous salary?...These teachers are replaceable, lot's of students coming out of college are ready for a job... Public services do require tax payer funding, but as Obama stated we all need to do our part...I am for controlling the process of what created the unbalance in the first place...Don't give influenced union political officials a chance to handcuff the state...Ever again...
The rest of what you posted has little to do with the real facts. I will comment on this part of your post though. 1. You keep saying we all need to do our part. This is a case of only one group doing anything and that is the public workers who must sacrifice to pay for Walker's tax cuts. The rich aren't asked to play any part. The private work force isn't asked to play any part. Only one group is being asked to do anything. 2. I've said before the Union officials didn't handcuff the state. They bargained and the state made agreements. That's the end of the story.
So now apparently Walker is blackmailing democratic senators to either return to the state or he’ll cut school budgets even more. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-more-painful-if-dems-dont-return.php?ref=fpa Walker Says Cuts Will Be More Painful If Dems Don't Return
Except if they don't return... he can't make these additional cuts, can he? They still won't be able to vote on them. On a side note, there's a movement to repeal 8 Republican Senators in Wisconsin: http://www.wisconsinrecall.net/ . Power to the people!
Interesting rumors coming out of WI this morning. Seems the WI GOP Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald is meeting secretly with some of the Dem senators behind Walker’s back. Hum…
BUST THOSE UNIONS! Compton Parents Take on the Public School System <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Fi-ZhkooQo?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> March 2, 2011 Last year, parents of students in failing California public schools were given a reason to be hopeful when Sacramento politicians passed something called the "parent trigger" law. The way the law works is that if 51% of parents at a failing school sign a petition, they can turn the school into a charter school, replace the staff or simply use the petition as a bargaining chip to initiate a conversation about change. On December 7, 2010, with help from the non-profit group Parent Revolution, parents of children attending McKinley Elementary in Compton became the first group of parents to pull the parent trigger. Their dream was to transform the school into a Celerity charter school. Instead, the Compton parents were thrust into a prolonged fight with supporters of the status quo: the Compton Unified School District, the teachers' unions, Gov. Jerry Brown and Tom Torlakson, the newly elected Superintendent of Public Instruction. This is the story about a group of parents in Compton who are fighting to give their children a better education. Approximately 8.5 minutes. Produced by Paul Feine and Alex Manning. Visit Reason.tv for downloadable versions of this and all our videos, and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube channel to receive automatic notification when new content is posted.
BREAKING: Wisconsin Voters Launch Recall Campaign Against Eight GOP State Senators http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/02/wisconsin-recall-2/
Barbour's Take: http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2011/03/02/barbour-criticizes-obama-on-collective-bargaining/
