Religious Question and Church Leadership

Them's fightin' words.

 

In Sunni Islam, there's no calling.

I think it does exist in Shiite Islam though when you get to the top ranks.

 

I don't know. I have a close friend who is an amazing person and is a pastor. His dad was one as well. I don't know that it makes him better or worse in that vocation...just colors his experience probably. He talks quite a bit about growing up in a stuffy, judgmental church that he rejects outright...so his experience in growing up around that definitely shaped his views.

 

I've met many Pastors who fought the idea of being a Pastor..did not want to be one, but felt God called them into the Ministry. Many of those are fairly successful. I've also met people that just wanted to be a Pastor, and Pastored for years and never could quite make it..so yes, I do believe you should be called to Pastor. I believe Osteen was called. He never wanted to be a Pastor, but felt he needed to take over Lakewood..God pushes us in a directions in many different ways..sometimes we just chose not to go that direction - I believe Joel chose the right way even those he didn't want to. Working at Daystar has really opened my eyes up to Ministers and their lives. Its important to remember that they're people to. They make mistakes, learn from them, struggle with the same things everyone else does..its only the ones that pretend they don't have struggles that bother me. Most preachers, however, will tell you straight up that they make mistakes and have troubles..I respect those guys. A Christian is NOT someone who lives without sin. A Christian is someone who lives their life, trys not to sin, but knows that they do, and is repentative. It is much harder to live as a Christian, than to live as a non-believer.

 

Funny thing is, this is the most "debate" worthy part of your entire post.

Why are atheists unqualified to answer or discuss this question?

And for that matter, why did you even bother addressing atheists specifically and then subsequently taking an (ignorant) shot at them?

In the future, RR, keep this in mind anytime you talk or think about atheists... atheism is a lack of a belief, not a belief in itself.

Claiming that you do not know something, or do not have a theory/idea, is not the same as saying you know something does not exist/is not true.

Please do not confuse the two anymore, it is a disservice to me and my fellow non-believers.

 

donny, so what you're saying is that atheists are satan worshippers, amirite

 

Ok now I need a lesson because I always though Atheists were those who didn't believe in G*d. But without Him, how is there a Satan? Can't have one without the other, eh?

 

okay, let me break it down for you. if you do not believe in god then you are going to hell, whether you believe in the dark lord or not.

 

I think that if you are good at leading people in their following of Christ and serving their community; if you like visiting sick people, giving the homeless a place to stay, feeding the hungry, and helping the widows and single mothers; and if have the necessary financial acumen to keep a church from being broke all the time (a poor church can do plenty of good, a broke church can't do much); then you should be a pastor. You can call those traits a calling if you want, but those people need to be pastors, regardless of what it's called.

 

I get what your saying..but I think he was alluding to the fact that most of the time when religious-based posts are made, many religion bashers tend to post without really contributing anything positive to the thread.

I'm hoping this thread doesn't go that direction..but usually its just a matter of time.

 

catholic priests are supposedly called. I mean who would choose to give up sex

 

Religion bashing is the most positive thing that can be contributed to a religion thread.

 

This might be more the case now but I don't think that was always the case. Priest were well respected people and often families would push their children into the priesthood for the prestige that would get. Also considering the power of the Catholic church during much of the history of Europe and many people would enter the priesthood to gain power or their families would push their sons into it help cement alliances with the church. Also consider that in Medieval Europe the only practical possibility of getting an education was by joining the priesthood.

 

I'm an atheist, but I can give you the conservative Presbyterian line (thru my atheist lens, I suppose): every believer is called to serve somehow. There is a plan for everyone, so some are indeed destined for ministry. But, how do you know if you're called? If you want to do it, you're able to do it, and there's no moral/biblical contradiction in you doing it, that's good enough. (I could probably extract a caveat from a conservative Christian though that not all people are necessarily in ministry because they would be good or beneficial in that capacity).

A 'calling' concept doesn't seem to jive with how I understand's Baptists' appraoch to salvation though. While Presbyterians will say God chooses believers, Baptists would say you need to choose to follow God. There's a lot more free will in that denomination. So, if you have free will in choosing salvation, why do you need a calling for ministry?

 

Back to the original question I think in our current society becoming a pastor, priest, Imam, Dharma Master and etc.. is a calling but it is a calling as much as choosing to enter most careers where one has the aptitude to do so. For instance why would someone choose to become an architect or a chef?

 

I agree that priests joined in those days for the advantages, even as late as the 1800s I believe families pushed their kids to the monestary/seminary because the families wanted the relief of feeding them.

but I think the official doctrine says these people are "called"

 

Because they need the time off to pursue a second career as an Irish punk musician?

 

You sir are repped!