No. He averages 7.5 pts, 7.1 rebs in 25.4 minutes, NOT 30+ minutes. That's a pretty big difference. His per 36 minutes stats are 10.6 pts, 10.1 rebs, 1.4 stls, and 1.0 blks, while shooting 56% from the field. His offensive game is actually average now, so you have to account for him on the field. His defense has always been elite, especially one on one defense. He's basically the perfect starting PF if you have an offensive center on the team. At center he's undersized, but he's still effective. If he does not get at least $5 million a year, I will be very very shocked. There is absolutely no way in hell this guy makes $3 million a year. Drew freakin Gooden signed from 5 years at $32 million last year...Amir Johnson was around the same range. Chuck is only 27 years old, so he'll get a pretty good contract.
There's more to defense than actual one-on-one defense when it comes to big men, that's why they are so valuable and integral to any championship team. Hayes doesn't provide one iota of paint defense, which a lot of people will argue is more important than simple man-to-man d, like how Yao Ming is an elite paint defender but average man-to-man defender (excluding young DH whom he just owned). Hayes also doesn't get you rebounds, which some poeple would argue is the main reason you get big men in the first place (i.e. Kevin Love). Finally at 27 years old Amir Johnson had the "P" word going for him, and drew gooden blew up in cleveland thanks to lebron. Neither of them are 6'6, which IMHO is the single biggest factor why Hayes won't get paid. Some biases are just too strong.
It seems many here are discounting Chuck's value. A few points to respond. 1. No one knows about him I disagree. One reason is simply that his "counting stats" have improved, as noted by some here. In addition to improved shooting/scoring, Hayes has become a pretty nice offensive rebounder, as well as passer. Making him much more than just a defensive player who can't do anything else. Also, he is a coach's favorite. This is pretty evident by both Adelman and JVG during their tenure here. And this would be obvious to coaches that play against us. And third, plenty of teams use Morey-esque philosophy in finding players. Dallas, OKC, Portland, and Boston just off the top of my head. And these are just some of the prominent ones. 2. He's a crappy undersized center I know this is hard to believe to some, but our starters actually have very good +/-. Whatever you may think of its legitimacy, it shows that our starters generally outscore opposing starters. Our defensive lapse comes usually when Hill or Miller comes in. Hayes, as undersized as he is, is a capable center. Granted, Hayes is not a starting center for a contender. But is there really any reason to believe he can't be a backup PF/C on a championship team? For example, backing up KG/Shaq in Boston, or Gasol/Bynum in LA? Or for that matter, behind Scola/Yao if Yao were healthy? Hayes may not be a starter, but he can easily be the 1st big man off the bench and be really good at it. And playing center when opponents are running their bench players take away a lot of his problems against size. 3. No one will pay him that much The most similar player to Hayes in the league is probably Varejao, who got a pretty nifty deal with the Cavs, and still worth something on the trade market to various teams. Overall, if you look at the type of players teams used MLEs on over the past years, it's hard to say that Hayes doesn't belong. To use a recent and close-to-home example, look at Lowry's contract in comparison. You think Hayes can't get a similar deal?
I think hes one of if not the only player on our team that we as fans routinely under rate. We typically overate our player, but not the chuckwagon.
As far fetched as it is, I think Chuck is actually underrated on ClutchFans (By Some). His B-Ball IQ is off the charts, and if other teams signed him they would likely be signing him as their starting or 6th man PF, not Center. Chuck being 6-6 and playing 2 whole seasons as a servicable NBA center shows how special he is. Imagine his rebounding numbers and defensive presence guarding PF's an entire season? Definitely worth full MLE. When Chuck is out, we lose just about every time. For those of you that lack the intellectual ability to understand the cause and effect, then I say to you lets keep Chuck because if nothing else he is our "good luck charm".
Chuck doesn't block shots into the first row, but he draws charges which are even better becuase you get a foul on the opposing player plus posession. Chuck protects the paint quite well in my opinion. Not dominant, but effective.
Chuck better not go anywhere...I just wonder if HE thinks he can get starter's minutes anywhere else...The only team he's guaranteed starters minutes eventually in a season is Portland....and we all know why!!!!
I guarantee we will resign him, you can take it to the bank. 4 years, 14 mil sounds about right. He's an above average offensive and defensive starting center, imagine what he could do as a PF. We will have a lot of competition too, Lakers are really the one team out there that couldn't use him, maybe OKC now too after Perk trade but he's a FA.
Actually I take that back, 14 mill is too small. Give him the exact contract Collison got, make him our highest paid player next year so we have money going into 2012. Ironically I think Collison is the one guy in the NBA he's most comparable to.
I'm not talking about blocking shots, I'm talking about bothering shot takers in the paint. Yao Ming isn't that prolific a shotblocker, but I'd take a healthy Ming's defense over anyone in the league, including DH's simply because his big bulk prevents people from driving inside and his long arms prevent players from taking easy-peasy shots in the paint. Its no coincidence our D went to the gutter when Yao got injured. Hayes, like Yao is a really good defensive player. Unfortunately unlike Yao he's not 7'6. @Meh: Fellow followers of Moreyball like OKC and Portland would want Chuck Hayes at his current salary of 2M. At 5-6M a year like what some here are suggesting? Not so much. Who would pay 6M a year for a 6'5 backup center? Varejao has enough height to offer paint protection as well as stellar man-to-man D. I would indeed say that Lowry is different from Hayes, because the Cavs paid lowry 6M a year to be their starter. Hayes won't be signed to start for anyone else. Ashiduh's projection of 14M, 4 years sounds about right to me as well, but at that amount we can keep him on the team no problem. The only hindrance to Hayes' future in the rox is his cap hold.
The problem with whether to resign to Chuck Hayes or not is there are no comparables in the market. It really just takes one other team to overvalue Hayes and drive the price up. So the question is, what team has the cap room? The Knicks, Nets, Lakers, Miami?? I could see the Lakers, if they decide not to trade Bynum in the offseason, could look at Hayes as a Bynum insurance policy longterm. Saying that Hayes is undervalued around the league would be ignorant and could be what ultimately costs the Rockets their best post defender and veteran presence. Teams in the NBA know who Hayes is, and know how important he is to a team like the Rockets winning games. Currently he is getting paid "situtational defensive stopper" money at roughly 3.4 mil. If it is apparent that Hayes will be the starting center for the Rockets again next season, look for him to negotiate for a higher salary. The new CBA will ultimately determine how much Chuck Hayes will be able to be resigned for, and I assume (Assume being the key word here) that Morey will resign Hayes around 3 to 4 mil a year under the NEW CBA. Again, assuming salaries are slightly on a lower scale than in previous years.
Chuck is the MVP of this team. This team completely fell apart in his absence during the ankle injury. Now the argument can be made that the MVP on a losing team isn’t really an MVP at all and I can agree with that except for two things. 1) The Rockets are still obviously making a playoff push so shipping out the most important player isn’t an option. 2) Unlike AB, Chuck is a guy who embraces any role he is assigned. Not only does he bring intangibles like hustle and leadership but he also contributes elite defense (post and perimeter) as well as some buckets, assists and rebounds. He fits on this squad regardless of it is contending for a Championship or rebuilding from the ground up. I’d pay this cat MLE money but I don’t think anyone will offer him more than $3-4 million a year and that’s a bargain.
I don't think Chuck will command 5-6 million either, but why do you keep referring to him as a backup C? He's playing C out of necessity on this team, and he'll often guard the opposing team's 4 (last last night against NOH). He is basically a 4 who is asked to defend whichever front-court player Scola can't defend.
If the only concern is 2012 FA then we should frontload his contract so that he effectively makes MLE money over the course of the deal but only makes 3.5 mill or so every year after next. We would still be well under luxury lax if we paid Chuck 10 mil next year, just a thought.
Anyone who doesn't think he is get not going to get at least 5 million a year is living in la la land. The guy can absolutely shut people down. If you don't think opposing coaches don't see that, you're understate people who are paid millions to know about basketball.
Regarding the “nobody knows about him” argument, I would tend to disagree except for the fact that his own coach, one Slick Rick Adelman, barely gave him any burn for the first half of the coach’s first season in Houston. He had the Chuck Wagon riding the pine until he realized just how good he was. Now if it takes a HOF coach half a season to realize how important Hayes is it tends to make me think that coache/GMs who only see him 2-4 times a year might not appreciate what he brings to a team. Looking at the contracts given to flashy but bad players, I think we give too much credit to a lot of teams out there when it comes to evaluating talent. I think Chuck is still basically under the radar.
If MVP is taken literally, as Most VALUABLE Player, instead of "best" player, then Hayes and to a lesser extent Lowry would be our MVPs. They may not be the best players on the team, but because they have so little depth behind them, losing either would cause major problems, as we've seen the past two years.
Orlando would probably kill to have chuck backing up dwight. I hope we can resign him. All of our young players need to see him and see what a professional looks like, plus if the day ever comes when he can play PF instead of C people will be able to see his true value.
