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Let freedom ring.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    this.
     
  2. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Don't worry, at least they have hot women to keep you safe. Dated a half Leb-Paki girl back 4 years ago, the hottest chick I've been with, left her for t***, "big" mistake.


    http://money.canoe.ca/money/business/international/archives/2011/01/20110127-142050.html

    Rich corporations “must share wealth” to avoid unrest

    Poverty and unemployment reared their heads at the World Economic Forum on Thursday, with speakers urging the elite audience to bridge a growing gap between booming multinationals and the jobless poor.

    Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, who also chairs the Socialist International group of centre-left parties, said the global crisis had led to an “unsustainable” race to the bottom in labour standards and social protection in developed nations.

    “Politically, I believe we are at a turning point where... there are signs in Europe of more nationalism, more racism, anti-Muslim, anti-semitism, fundamentalisms of all types,” he said. “We need to look to a different model.”

    Maurice Levy, chairman and chief executive of French advertising giant Publicis, said there was “a huge suspicion about CEOs, bankers, corporations.”

    “People do not understand that these large corporations are doing extremely well, while their lives have not improved and without the support of the people, there is no way we will be able to grow,” he told a panel discussion.

    “We have been led by greed. We have been led by only the bottom line, the profit and we have sacrificed the workers in order to please the stockholders.”

    The increasing division between fast-growing emerging market economies and stagnating, jobless nations in the developed world has been a theme at the talks in Davos this year, which some corporations pay tens of thousands of dollars to attend.

    Corporate chieftains have preferred to focus on their optimism that roaring growth in countries such as China and India will outweigh flat or declining sales in Europe or Japan, allowing them to keep growing profits.

    But some speakers suggested this was short-sighted.

    Former U.S. President Bill Clinton said tackling income inequalities was essential to future growth and needed to be part of the core of doing business in the 21st century.

    U.S. economist Nouriel Roubini predicted a backlash against budget cuts in Europe if there was no rapid return to economic growth.

    “People are willing to do austerity, willing to do sacrifices and reform as long as there’s light at the end of the tunnel,” he said.

    With unrest in Tunisia and Egypt a major talking point in Davos, Mthuli Ncube, the Tunis-based Chief Economist for the African Development Bank, predicted more trouble ahead if the fruits of growth were not shared more evenly:

    “If you are not even creating jobs, not even sharing the economic growth that is coming through, then there will be push-back,” he said. “It’s one thing to get good growth going. It is another to share that.”

    Eckhard Cordes, chief executive of German discount retailer Metro, said the only answer for Europe’s armies of unemployed young people was to improve their level of education and take higher-skilled jobs.

    “We’ve got no choice in countries like Germany,” he said. “What we have to do to at least keep the wealth we have today is to invest in education, train people, educate them.”

    Klaus Kleinfeld, chairman and CEO of U.S. aluminium giant Alcoa, offered a different solution.

    “Elderly people you don’t outsource, these people stay in the country,” he said in Davos. “You can look at healthcare as a job engine.”
     
  3. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    I dont think the Egyptian religious establishment is smart enough to co-opt all the anger properly. The Iranians had a concrete and unified religious establishment that was smart enough to get in on the revolution early and get a seat at the top of the movement.

    Egypt on the other hand has a disjointed and fragmented religious establishment with no real leadership. In fact I almost think they have disproportionate amounts of influence because Mubarak likes to have them playing along with his charade.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    It won't happen as long as there are two parties in the US who can blame each other and hope to steal the next seat.

    I hope this works out for Egyptians.

    Let freedom ring.
     
  5. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    If by fine you mean safe, then yes it is. But by no means is Syria fine under the dictatorship it's been under. It's about time people got fed up with those dictators and went to the streets, and I hope all the middle eastern countries follow Tunisia's lead, especially Syria.
     
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    compare:

    Condi, speaking Cairo, 2005

    [rquoter]We should all look to a future when every government respects the will of its citizens -- because the ideal of democracy is universal.

    For 60 years, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East -- and we achieved neither.

    Now, we are taking a different course. We are supporting the democratic aspirations of all people. [/rquoter]

    Contrast:

    Hillary, yesterday

    [rquoter]We believe strongly that the Egyptian government has an important opportunity at this moment in time to implement political, economic and social reforms to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people. We urge the Egyptian authorities not to prevent peaceful protests or block communications including on social media sites'[/rquoter]

    Good will conquer Evil, and the Truth will set you free?

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K2eE9H7Nzww" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>
     
  7. Northside Storm

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    U.S. President George W. Bush (R) shakes hands with Uzbek President Islam Karimov March 12, 2002 during their meeting at the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, DC. Bush invited Karimov to the White House to discuss a long-term military partnership.

    words are pretty little things
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    I was in Cairo a few weeks ago. Islam's influence on the masses there troubles me, as to who could end up in power.
     
  10. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    Yep. When too much wealth is concentrated in too few hands you have unhealthy circulation. It doesn't get invested in job creating businesses it just sits. Here's the proof with help from Elizabeth Warren.

    Warren and Tyagi point out that a fully employed worker today earns less inflation-adjusted income than a fully employed worker did 30 years ago. To increase their income, families have sent a second parent into the workforce. Although families spend less today on clothing, appliances, and other consumption, the costs of core expenses like mortgages, health care, transportation, child care, and taxes have increased dramatically. The result is that, even with two income earners, families no longer save and have incurred greater and greater debt.

    Average hourly wage in 1972, adjusted for inflation: $20.06. In 2008: $18.52.

    http://extremeinequality.org/?page_id=8

    This should be a simple problem to understand, mandatory costs like healthcare, insurance, education, gasoline, housing, are rising much faster than wages. Two workers now have the purchasing power of one, no one is home to raise the kids, divorce rates are up because of financial stress, obesity is up, etc. etc.

    The last decade has been abysmal:

    The typical American household made less money last year than the typical household made a full decade ago.

    To me, that’s the big news from the Census Bureau’s annual report on income, poverty and health insurance, which was released this morning. Median household fell to $50,303 last year, from $52,163 in 2007. In 1998, median income was $51,295. All these numbers are adjusted for inflation.

    In the four decades that the Census Bureau has been tracking household income, there has never before been a full decade in which median income failed to rise.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/a-decade-with-no-income-gain/

    Two-thirds of the nation’s total income gains from 2002 to 2007 flowed to the top 1 percent of U.S. households, and that top 1 percent held a larger share of income in 2007 than at any time since 1928, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez.

    During those years, the Piketty-Saez data also show, the inflation-adjusted income of the top 1 percent of households grew more than ten times faster than the income of the bottom 90 percent of households.

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908

    To top it all off that concentration led to the worst job creation decade, ever.

    The Bush administration created about three million jobs (net) over its eight years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Bill Clinton’s administration and only slightly better than President George H.W. Bush did in his four years in office.

    Because the size of the economy and labor force varies, we also calculate in percentage terms how much the total payroll count expanded under each president. The current President Bush, once taking account how long he’s been in office, shows the worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

    I know Thadeus is hoping we have a revolution before the middle class is completely gone. Something has to give. This income inequality cannot continue. We have increased efficiency through tech and automation eliminating thousands of jobs along the way but there is no subsequent wage increase for the remaining jobs. You can't allow wages to remain stagnant and fixed costs like healthcare, housing and energy to skyrocket. You can only squeeze the middle class so long before something breaks.
     
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  11. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    I was referring to Syria's safety for a traveler, not my opinion on whether the Assad regime is good or not.
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    wow!

    Egypt Internet Goes Down, According To Reports

    Reports are emerging that Internet has gone down in Cairo and perhaps throughout Egypt, only hours before the largest planned protests yet.

    According to a report from The Arabist, "Egypt has shut off the internet."

    Multiple Internet Service Providers are affected according to the report,
     
  13. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    My heart is with Egypt.
     
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    We need a country singer to do "The night the net went down in Egypt".
     
  15. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Just like in Iran, the decades of US support for dictatorship will bite it in the ass.
     
  16. Northside Storm

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    shades of Gdansk
     
  17. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Same here, Mubarak is a scumbag. I didnt meet a single Egyptian when I was there who felt remotely happy about their leadership.
     
  18. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

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    Funny how America claims to fight for "freedom and democracy" but they not only let ruthless dictatorships hang around, they go as far as to actively support them.

    Unbelievable how so many people today still believe America's past wars have been about freedom and democracy, and how they are purely selfless in motive. :eek:

    Our increasingly luxurious and coddled culture/lifestyle has led us into complete naivety and apathy. Politics, government, and institutions have been cleared out in favor of fashion, culinary, and generally entertainment-based ideals.

    Oh well.
     
  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    not that simple. Think critically, my friend.

    Without rule of law, non-corrupt government officials, a functional court system, governmental checks and balances, etc......democracy can be dangerous
     
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  20. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

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    I find it sad that they go as far as to dupe the public into believing in these wars and conflicts. Anybody can justify nearly anything if they spew enough BS. Sadly, most people believe all of it.
     

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