The only thing you need to know about Biggio and his chances of getting into the HOF is 3000 hits. Slam dunk..... Not to mention Biggio has more doubles than Hank freakin Aaron. He has better numbers than Ryan Sandberg (who is already in HOF). Oh and he is only one of two players who have hit 50 doubles and had 50 steals in the same season. If Bags would have made 500 hrs he would have been a no-doubter. I think Bags goes in with his pal Biggio. It will be the Killer Bees making the HOF at the same time. Perfect ending to a perfect pairing of two fantastic players. Houston will have the spotlight and the respect when that happens. I plan on being there in 2 years to see it in person. Bags and Biggio ARE pro baseball in Houston.
Admittedly the Astros haven't exactly had rosters chock full of HOF'ers. But saying Biggio and Bagwell going in is homerism, has the smack of someone who knows nothing of baseball except a month playing MLB The Show.
dude kirby puckett was the s***. Not sure what you were watching but kirlby was the man and helped to win TITLES. Lots of homers in this thread. We let bagwell in and then we need to start letting you and me in.. the next thing you know it's the head forklift operator at macys on the hof ballot. The line needs to be drawn and bagwell just doesn't cut it. I said that biggio *might* be in but a very shaky might Don't you mean biggio? yeah sorry just dont put a good utility guy on the same list as jackie robinson Call me crazy but it's the HALL OF FAME. not the HALL of Pretty solid. and you don't watch much postseason baseball ? bagwell has 2 CAREER POSTSEASON HOME RUNS. My 2 year old daughter can count higher than 2. This is ridiculous. You homers really want to water it down right? This is going to be like the pro bowl where it begins to be almost everyone. If bagwell and biggio make it good for them ,but I would seriously question letting them in especially bagwell. Might as well open it up and let everyone in. If you are going to put in bagwell you have to put in canseco and so on and so forth. This aint the VIP line at the gold cup. Make some exclusivity my gawd. I for one have personally gotten to enjoy shaun bagwell enormous artificial chest (haven't we all) lord knows that was a great contribution to houston and the male population. As much as I want to throw him a bone just for that again, it is the Hall of fame. come on people.
Please name an individual statictic, counting or average, in which Puckett bests Bagwell. He has a 21-point advantage in batting average, which amounts to roughly 160 additional hits over the entirety of their respective careers (roughly 10/season). That's it. Bagwell has him in HRs, RBIs, Rs, SBs, OB%, SLG%, OPS, OPS+, WAR... and the #s aren't even close. There's a large contingent of people who think Puckett's induction is one of the HoF's most puzzling. Fine player but nowhere near an all-timer. And nowhere near Bagwell's class. Not that you have a lot to begin with, but you're doing your credibility no favors by citing Puckett as a beacon of Hall of Fame worthiness. This will be my final response to you because I'm 99.9999% certain you're just yanking chains and trying to get a rise out of us. Uhm, no. Biggio was a catcher/second baseman. So when I said, "the second greatest NL first baseman of all-time," I most certainly did not mean Biggio. Can she count to 106? That's the # of postseason ABs Bagwell totaled. You're honestly going to let 106 ABs, which is roughly the grand equivalent of a month's worth, trump his 7,800 regular season at bats? Again, we're talking about the second greatest National League 1B in the entire history of baseball. He was the best until just a few years ago. You've have now compared Bagwell to Roderick Rhodes, a Macy's forklift operator and Jose Canseco. I feel sorry for you - you had the privilege of watching one of the 50 greatest players of all-time (2, actually), and apparently had no idea. Are you drunk?
I also like how we "homers" wanting Bags in would be akin to the Pro Bowl, yet he cites Bagwell's lack of All-Star game appearances as "evidence" that he doesn't belong. So popularity contests are only valid if they support your thesis?
To be fair to Puckett, most voters put him in out of sympathy for his career ending prematurely. He was still a very productive player when he was forced to retire, putting up an ops around 900 (130 OPS+) With regards to him vs Bagwell, once again recall position here. Puckett played CF and Bagwell played 1B. As to Biggio, anyone who argues he is not a HOF, and probably a first ballot HOF, is foolish.
Hey, he made the comparison first to Puckett, not us. Like I said above, if you want 1st basemen, compare Bagwell to Cepeda, Killebrew, or McCovey. He was actually much better all around statistically the either of the first two. And why not include the time Bagwell lost because of the arthritic shoulder? He might have played another 3 or 4 years if he had been healthy.
So... a sympathy vote that overrode an otherwise very good but not great career. IOW, not terribly deserving based on raw #s. The offensive discrepancy is enough to overcome Puckett playing a more difficult position. Check their WAR. Or any other offensive statistic: Bagwell was overwhelmingly better and didn't play the entirety of his career in a place called the Homer Dome.
I agree with you Ric and think Puckett was a bad election personally. I'm just explaining the rationale that went in to electing him and why it doesn't relate to Bagwell.
I think the Baseball writers can pick up to 9 from the ballot. I would say Bagwell, McGwire, Palmerio, Walker, Larkin, E Martinez, Smith, Raines and Trammell.
And Puckett wasn't necessarily an elite defensive CF. -1.8 dWAR for his career. Goes to show you what a joke GG voting is, maybe more so than HOF voting.
No for Walker and Martinez for me. Martinez couldn't play defense at all, that should count. Walker played in Colorado during his glory days, and only had 2 seasons where he got to 500 AB(s). Just too injury prone. What's funny is the one guys stance about Bagwell and drugs, yet he voted for a guy who's nickname was gleaned from snorting cocaine. I do think Raines should be in the HOF. He was the 2nd best lead-off man of his generation.
I do not see how you can compare Jeff Bagwell to Mike Piazza? Both are at different positions, and most of all, Bagwell will be compared to other 1st baseman. He should get on the account, but it also depends on the writers and the class he is entering against. The MLB Hall of Fame is toughest to crack into, as far as major team sports in America go. It'll be bad, if those voters push him into Rafael Palmeiro category (who in his own right was an excellent 1Bm as well). The rumor of steroids, but Palemeiro actually test positive for PEDs (anabolic steroids). With Palmeiro, just looking at his numbers, he would be a first ballot Hall of Famer, mainly because he was an all around good baseball player, like Bagwell. Even more so, the water is much too murky to determine the effect of steroids on the game at large. For me, I do not think Bagwell used, it would've came out much sooner. Even at that point, he's in for me. He was too great of 1B to leave out of the Hall of Fame. http://oldsite.thebaseballpage.com/positions/rankings/1B.php OT: I'm pretty much not voting against a player who has admitted, caught, or accused of doing HGH (or steroids). It shouldn't be a total indictment of a player's career or achievements. Those shouldn't all be disregarded, especially if there's no evidence, even more so no evidence recording a specific time of usage (even with that). While, you can't quantify performances, necessarily. Here's the theory floating around: http://baseballevolution.com/asher/bagwellconspiracy.html
Damn I was hoping the title was true and baseball didn't do anything idiotic for once, but looks like the votes are still being cast.... If he doesn't go this year, then his chance will be when Biggio gets eligible. Otherwise, the hall can go to hell. They've already made a mockery of it already with moral superiority and personal bias.
