The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

I agree. Clutchfan casuals have no clue what they are watching. He is a superstar budding right before their eyes and they think he is a scrub. Unfortunately, this coach, KD, and FVV are going to take way too many touches away from Amen for him to blossom this upcoming season. I hope they sign him to the extension before this season or he is liable to tell them to go pound rocks next off-season.

 

Really?! because the things I've pointed out have little to do with 3p% and nothing at all to do with ppg average.

It's the shooting between the margins AND 3p shooting percentage all of which contribute to Amen causing the spacing issues.

Someone is either trying to move the goalposts or really isn't understanding the concept behind the argument.

 

You said it yourself - how they defend Amen on the ball kills the team offense. A stretch 5 MIGHT solve that problem (more on that in a bit).

But you leave out how they defend him off the ball - it's much the same especially if he's on the same side of the floor as Jabari, one defender playing the space between them and the rim hedging towards the paint - because Jabari isn't much of a threat to drive and Amen taking a 3 is invited, the defense see's that as a won possession.

Back to the stretch 5 issue - I'm not sold it solves the problem, especially in off ball situations, on ball, it probably works.

BUT we here at CF have been begging for this stretch 5 addition since Dwight Howard made his exit from the team - that's a long time, 2015/16, that's literally an entire decade ...
We're looking for a rim protector that can also shoot ~league average from 3. That's a unicorn for the most part.
Lots of people have mentioned Myles Turner, he's probably too old now for this group, @xtruroyaltyx and I started the idea of Kel'el Ware last season and into this offseason and about 90% of the forum joined the idea .... he's on the same team as Turner and probably isn't available.

Then there's Jokic, Wemby and Lopez and that's the short list.

Some people mention Jabari but he just isn't that guy - he can't do it and I don't see that changing, he just doesn't have the body type.

There really aren't more than a handful of these guys in the league who are capable of starting and anchoring a defense and shooting well enough to keep a defense honest.

At one point Stone went after Lopez but he backed out at the last minute .... so we know Stone has some desire for the archetype but since then he hasn't been willing to commit the assets to the position for whatever reason - Likely the cost and ...

Then, there's the fact that with that acquisition, you are likely giving up on Sengun. Maybe it makes you better, maybe not.

But in doing that, you are making decisions based off of a guy who while a very impactful player - he's a terrible shooter and is still going to wreck your spacing while off ball. He is much of the reason KD & Sengun were double teamed so much this season, mainly when he played off ball.

It just doesn't make sense to me .... maybe if he were actually competent at playing the point and you can leave the ball in his hands most of the time but that just isn't the case, his best position is probably as a 3-4 where he can attack in transition and give up the ball otherwise. But he can't even run a basic pick and roll ....

 

Regarding Ware, I wanted to get in on facilitating Giannis to Miami giving up Sengun and picking up Ware and Herro as part of our return.

I think that wouldve solved a lot of problems for this team.

 

Meh. I'm not opposed necessarily to the idea of trade Sengun, but I'm not trading him for Ware and Herro.

 

That's a tough question .... I think right now, that would have to be a Green / Sengun Special coming in somewhere around 21.5% give or take - I think those were fair deals for both sides, Jalen betting on himself a bit more, 2 years and a player option and Sengun taking the security of 4 years plus a player option.

That's sure a lot of money tied up in the front court .... KD, Sengun, Jabari, Tari and Amen (Adams and Capela).

 

Don't be hyperbolic, no one ever said "he's a scrub".

He's a very impactful player.

What I and others have stated:

he's not the franchise player - we don't have one.
he's not a max player.
he's not a build around player.

And there's no need to try and be insulting calling people casuals like that idiot DD - I've never insulted you.

 

Thatd be about 35 mill a year. If the Rockets could get Amen at 35 mill a year, that would be a boon to the organization. Wemby just took less than he could have. Maybe Amen does the same.

 

Amen is the closest roclet to a frsnchise player right now. Not alpi jabari nor reed.

He will be the last to be traded

Live with it

 

Was Wemby eligible for a 30max?

 

Was DPOY and all nba.

 

How is a 30 yr old Turner too old?

 

I wouldnt give Thompson a contract until the end and he's proven he can shoot anything more than a 8 ft er

 

Thanks for putting in words what I never could cause my english sucks.

A strech 5 who can play defense (a freaking unicorn by the way) MAY, just MAY solve the problem. But what about when Amen is off the ball? And even on the ball, is he skilled enough off the dribble to put enough pressure on the rim to justify all this roster gymnastics, including obviously having to trade Sengun?

I just don't see what some people see in him. It's VERY hard to build around a non-shooting guard in today's NBA. And, as many have said before, the chances of him becoming even a passable shooter are slim to none. He's the main reason our offense sucks in the playoffs, I don't think there's a single coach in the world that could make this offense even passable. Not that I like Ime, he sucks for sure, but he's got an impossible mission with this roster.

 

Eh, for some reason I was thinking he was 32 ...

Still, by the time this team is ready to win a playoff series, he'll have aged out .... and so will half of us.

We're waiting for Amen to learn to shoot, Sengun to be faster, jump higher and learn to shoot, Tari to learn to dribble with his other hand or hit a layup, Jabari to be able to put it on the floor on close outs and rattle the rim, Shepard to be a defensive stud and KD to get injured.

Adams and FVV have flat tires but are otherwise ready to go ....

 

Curious what are your trade and aquisition ideas to build an instant championship roster

 

Bingo! Lets see which one(s) happen(s).

 

People say we need a stretch five to truly maximize our roster, but check out our best two-man lineups who played at least 500 minutes together. I actually think Amen paired with a true defensive anchor who can set big screens and operate well in the PNR could work quite well.

 

The Heat has Powell, Herro, and Bam all averaging 20 points a game. Powell & Herro both 38% 3 point shooters while Bam just 30% 3pt shooter.

Guess who's untouchable and why.

 

I don't believe there is a path to instant contender status.

We don't have a #1. Aside from KD, we have a bunch of pretty good players none of which fit together because they are fundamentally flawed in one way or another.

In the modern NBA, if you don't have that guy you have no shot advancing in the post season.

You have to keep taking shots at that guy until you find one, then you put the best pieces you can find around him. In the mean time, you use your current talent to improve your chances at landing that future star.

With the new anti-tanking rules and penalty for being in the bottom 3 teams have to increase their odds by taking as many bites at the apple as possible.
I think we'll see some tweaks to the lottery odds to reduce / remove the penalties to that bottom 3 in the next few years as the same 3-5 teams are going to be in that group year after year, picking in the same range as teams who just missed the play in - more flattening of the odds.