The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

in the playoffs, 34 players avaraged 14 or more shot attempts per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=FGA*GE*14&TeamID=0&dir=D&sort=FG_PCT

of those 34, Reed had the worst FG%

that's Ime's fault as usual right?

 

It really is uncanny.

Comparing Amen to Simmons: I don't agree, but I get the rationality behind the comparison and concerns.

Comparing Amen to Capela: WTF?

 

Simmons was Magic Johnson compared to Amen.

I don't think it's news to anyone that Ben Simmons was who people hoped Amen could be... and for good reason, before injuries robbed him of his athleticism far too soon, Simmons was set to be a top player of a generation.

Amen's ceiling isn't really anywhere near that high. His real comp is "what if Giannis was only 6'7"?

 

Amen didn't hunt mismatches in most of those videos. He started twice with a good defender. The Lakers' strategy in those videos was not to put a good defender on Amen at the perimeter and just collapse as they did not fear his shot. By focusing their few defenders on other players, the Lakers were generally able to stymie the Rockets' offense from other players while they let Amen go off.

Amen taking it to the basket is the counter when teams choose to just not defend him on the perimeter. Amen generally puts up good stats in this situation, but isn't enough usually. That game, it worked for the Rockets.

 

Oh no, I bet that's the only time a de facto rookie that is essentially the only real guard on a team full of scrubs that can't shoot well enough to keep defenses honest has ever struggled in the playoffs.

How that relates to Amen, which is the subject of conversation, is a mystery though.

 

Injuries were only partially to blame for Simmons crashing out. Another big reason is he was a wuss. You can't be a true franchise player with a beta mentality.

Amen's ceiling and Simmons hypothetically ceilings aren't really comparable. Simmons would have never been a #1 scorer, because he was more "point" than "forward." Amen absolutely has the ability and mentality to be a number one scorer.

Not to mentions Amen's athleticism blows Simmons out of the water. Simmons wasn't really all that good of an athlete - he just moved really well for his size. Amen is truly in the 99th percentile of NBA athletic ability. Amen's no-step vertical is higher than Simmons max vertical.

 

Amen has the potential to be the top scorer on either a bad offense, or an offense with good enough ball handlers to create him enough easy buckets.

The Ben Simmons thing is really just a joke based on what people used to think Amen was capable of, again the reality is he's a 6'7 Giannis... which is still very good but it also means some need to pump the brakes a bit when hyping him up.

 

I see your point. Pippen never made it to 23-25 points per game, so if Amen does, he would be a "Better Pippen" which would be your franchise player. I just don't know if that is in the cards - I am rooting for him, but I am skeptical.

 

I'm not sure who's really "pumping him up." No one in here is saying he's going to be Giannis. I think a reasonable ceiling for Amen is, like, a 22 - 25 ppg on good efficiency, maybe 5 - 6 assists per and 6 - 8 rebounds per game while playing amazing defense. I think that's an All NBA, franchise player profile. I could even see a world where a guy like Sheppard or Sengun scores more per game, but Amen is considered our franchise player.

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=FGA*GE*14&TeamID=0&dir=A&sort=FG_PCT

Amen is 2nd best FG% behind Barnes better than Wemby
while Reed is dead last even Jalen Green shot better

take the L

 

I mean, even if what you're saying is true - and I don't think it is - it didn't work. That's why I think the sagging off thing is somewhat overblown - if you sag off of Amen, you leave him open for cuts and drives. You have to pick your poison.

Look at the Timberwolves game. They threw everything at him - played him tight. Threw different defenders at him. Didn't matter - he got to his spots.

 

25 PPG from a 6'7 guy who is worthless if he's further than a few feet from the rim is kind of crazy especially when you want to add assists on top of that.

He'd need someone to create a ton of dunks for him AND he'd have to have James Harden type usage numbers to make that possible.

Getting that from someone who is super limited on offense is hyping him beyond realistic expectations.

 

Not really. He averaged 20/8/5 a game after the All Star break last season on only 13 shots a game at 23 years old. You really think, in his prime, he couldn't average closer to 25 ppg if we let him take 17 - 18 shots a game?

 

So a 3rd year forward pretending to be a guard that shot from an average of 8 feet from the rim had a better fg% than a de facto rookie who shot from an average of 20 feet from the rim?

Unpossible!

Kid, are you even trying? Lol

 

Well, like I said earlier, on a really bad offense, i guess it could be possible, but any team he's doing that for either has a HOF tier PG creating for him or is a lottery team... or both.

 

This board is fascinating to me. It is the only one I have encountered in which a large contingency of posters truly believe that 22 - 23 year old prospects are finished products.

Amen improved from 14.1 ppg to 18.3 ppg per game in one year. Amen basically averaged 20 ppg on incredible efficiency after turning 23. On any other forum, the posters would think the sky is the limit for a guy making that kind of jump. Here, they think that same guy scoring 25 ppg at 28 years old is out of the realm of possibility.

 

It's not that he's a finished product but he currently has there offensive weapons of a center and he's only 6'7.

There's an upper limit to what can be reasonably expected offensively from that type of player.

 

Like I said, this board is the only one I have encountered where a large number of posters think they can declare what “type” of player a prospect is at 23 years old. It’s a mentality so divorced from the reality historical player development it is hard for me to understand.

Any other forum: “This player has some weaknesses, but he is only 23, so he has a lot of time to work on them.”

This forum: “This 23 year old has a weakness that will forever limit him.”

 

You can't see that the Lakers guarded Amen with a poor perimeter defender at the start of those videos in all, but two? Luke Kennard was the primary defender on Amen most of the series.

On sagging off Amen, of course it makes it easier for Amen to drive. That is kind of the point. The defense is saying they would rather guard other Rockets, and accept the poison of Amen cutting and driving. Amen may be the best cutter in the NBA.

On working, the Lakers won the series. They lost a battle.

I don't want this to come off that I think Amen wasn't the best player for the Rockets that series, but Amen is one of the least guarded non-centers in the NBA on the perimeter whether it be by placing bad defenders on him, not guarding him, or having a center guard him. Defenses choose the defend Amen at the rim by collapsing. Rockets' choice is either to give him the ball or put him in the dunker's spot. He is a non-threat as a spacer without the ball. Though, Sengun is pretty worthless when Amen has the ball making it easier for other teams to guard the other 3 players, and the other team can always try to have Sengun's man try to mitigate Amen's damage at the rim (though Amen, should still score well).

Amen needs to play with a stretch 5 such that he's not on the court with a guy like Sengun to get the most out of Amen's offense. Maybe, Amen or Sengun have a step up in ability that they can overcome the bad fit.

On the Timberwolves game, why is that noteworthy? My guess is that Amen had a good game. For most games I see, Amen is not treated like perimeter threat as teams are willing to sag off him.

 

I guess it just depends on if we're talking best possible outcome or if we're talking realistic outcomes.

If we're talking best possible outcomes, sure Amen being that type of player is possible.... just like Reed Sheppard becoming Steph Curry and Sengun becoming Jokic.

I don't think any of them are all that realistic though.