The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

This is just falsehood. His usage went up thus his numbers went down. He had a 2:1 ratio assist to turnover. He was our best playoff player. You can try and downplay Amen all you want but there was significant growth in a lot of areas that matter. On ball duties, handle, managing load on offense/defense, etc. Players numbers tend to drop as theyre tasked with more thats part of ascending to stardom. There are other areas he did regress which he needs to work on but it doesnt matter. We just need to expect growth from him (and Reed) this season. The expectation this season is All Star. It took Cade until year 4 to truly ascend (seems like these kids are taking longer). Lets hope it happens. I expect it to.

 

I believe as well

in the playoffs, Amen has proven he has the potential to be as good as a passer as Jokic, Shai, Cade, and Scottie

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?dir=D&sort=POTENTIAL_AST

And his shotting especially 10 to 14 ft mid range shows promising growth and potential

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting?CF=10-14 ft. FGA*GE*1.5&dir=D&sort=10-14 ft. FG PCT

If I will bet on anyone on the rockets to be clearly the most impactful to winning on any team in the near future it would be Amen

 

I give you stats proving my points, you give me the eyeball test .... as seen thru Rockets Red colored glasses.

Literally every measurable stat showed regression year over year.


This is like arguing about Jalen Green all over again, I'd give stats showing how inconsistent he was, half the board would call me crazy .... talking about growth like it's linear or guaranteed and it didn't stop until he was traded.

Then you dismiss the shooting numbers like it's meaningless - it's not. If he can't shoot he's a liability to the other 4 players on the court. He destroys spacing and the Amenites blame Sengun or KD for the spacing problems - we need a stretch 5, lets get rid of KD ..... and we've been thru this before with Westbrook, it's like you guy's don't want to see the truth.
Those shooting numbers are the most impactful statistic, not just something you can dismiss like it's irrelevant.

Just like with Jalen, the tide is slowly turning .....

 

None of what you're saying makes any sense, and it's because you are ignoring context. Green basically played the same position all of his career and was consistently inconsistent. Last year, Amen made a radical change in position, and he got consistently better throughout the season at the new position. The numbers bear that out.

Pre-All Star Break: 17.6/7.6/5.4; 50.5% FG%; 56.8 TS%
Post-All Star Break: 19.5/8.1/5.1; 59.1% FG%; 64.4 TS%

Obviously, Amen started breaking out as he got more and more comfortable with his new role.

Did you watch any Rockets games last year, or just the stat sheet? Because I can't imagine any person who actually watched Amen progress last season making the arguments you're making.

 

He only cares about how Amen is playing too many minutes and his 3 FG% thats it.

Doesn't look at TS%, assists, potential assists, turnovers, midrange efficiency, BPM, net rating, on/off, etc.

 

As I was reading that post, I was going to ask you the exact same thing: Did you watch any games at all?

Amen played the point for maybe the first dozen or so games, after that he was banished to the dunkers spot offensively - outside of transition where he would attack the rim or give it up.
After that 10-12 game stretch with Amen as the point guard, it became Point KD from then to seasons end. There was no adjustment, y'all are just making shiit up.
Ime made the choice to go with point KD and Sengun because Amen was so utterly terrible at actually executing the offense (outside of transition) and Shepard wasn't much better, Ime didn't have much choice with literally no competent point guards on the entire roster... no one could run a simple pick and roll.

Why the hell would Ime go with Point KD and Sengun running the offense with all the turnovers and offensive ineptitude team wide when he had Amen? I guess Ime is just an idiot ....

I also watched defenders ignore Amen off ball on a routine basis .... which led to double teams on Sengun and KD.

You give me these incomplete stats, just shooting percentage - Amen takes 71% of his shots within 8 feet - He Should Have A High Shooting Percentage.
But what that stat leaves out is how defenders play him otherwise and how pathetic the numbers are outside of that 3-6 foot range - when he's on the perimeter, away from the rim - They literally ignore him and are able to defend an entire side of the floor with 1 defender - especially if Jabari is on the wing with Amen.
Amen isn't a threat to make shots, and Jabari isn't a threat to attack the rim. One defender was routinely above to play the space between them and the bucket while the other 4 defenders were playing 4 on 3, double teaming KD, Sengun and even Reed.

As this is happening, all I hear is "We need a stretch 5" .... blaming the spacing problems on Sengun and ignoring the elephant in the room.

 

I hate to get into the argument with people about data and watching the games because some of them know the data better than I do and some people watch more of the games. I would say I think I was about 90% this year.

as mentioned, I respect all opinions so it’s fine but anybody that watches I’m in Thompson and doesn’t realize that he is very special, I just don’t understand the take.

I lean pretty heavily toward the idea that he can be a point guard, and that that should be his primary position. the good thing is that we really should be able to figure that out this year. I’m open to the idea that he may find the most success he will ever have off the ball, but I want to try it at PG first.

I also try to be pragmatic in understanding who the owner is and the fact that this power structure is going to exist for some period of time. unfortunately, I don’t see them making the systemic adjustment to having an offensive coordinator.

even if we run our exact roster back, with a couple of the new additions we should still be able to clean whether Thompson could be the point guard of the future or not. I actually think that after this year we should be able to tell if he can be 1A or a 1B type of player.

if we want to, we can probably even figure that out with Sengun in the lineup although I think it makes it a little bit harder to get a read on. Again, we know that offensive creativity is not walking through that coaches locker room. Sengun, very well, may have the talent to be a franchise cornerstone. He is on a great contract, and he is only 23. I hate advocating for trading him, I absolutely despise the fact that I think it’s best. If, we are able to get proper value.

Thompson Has the unique outcome possibility of being a transcendent player. It isn’t likely but with what I have seen I am a full believer.

Sengun, Is likely to become a very solid second or third best player.

Reed, Is a a complete wildcard and really should only be considered as playing one year of college basketball. I think that when you picture him alongside Thompson, you really can cover the needs of the PG/SG position very well. As far as starting together. Reed, Could absolutely blow up. That is still in play.

Jabari is the guy that is least likely to make the jump to be a 1A or 1B But he has continued to improve, and I do not think it is viable to count him out.

Those 4 guys…. It is not likely, but we need two of them ideally to rise to the status 1A or 1B. Maybe as a foursome, they cover a large part of what a nine man rotation needs to win a title.

There are a few teams in the NBA that have a better poll position than we do. Obviously, and duh. I still think that we have done a pretty good job with all circumstances considered, and let’s see what the future brings.

If Durant is more willing to spend the time on the floor that he has alongside Sengun and Thompson In his hot zone, as far as the three-point range goes than that can help a lot.

I don’t think any of us love the coaching and that is fair. I do think there will be some growth from these guys internally just because they play together an extra year.

I do think we need to trade Alpi …But I am only doing that for what I consider fair value. We are not trading from a spot of desperation, and somebody would have to drastically overpay. I just want to shift to the Thompson model that doesn’t count on either one of those guys becoming an amazing shooter.

 

Yeah, you clearly did not watch the Rockets at all last year. Banished to the dunker’s spot after a dozen games? You are believing a reality that is not based in reality.

For example, here’s a post All Star game example v. Portland. 26 points, 7 assists, most created while operating on the perimeter, maybe a couple from the dunker’s spot.

If you like, I could provide more examples.

 

What point is it to give you a bunch of counting stats that prove Amen's improvement (like his free throw % and his assist to t.o. ratio which you ignore) when you'll just ignore them? Even his increased 3 pt % you gave a caveat that it was too little attempts. There is zero sense in having a back and forth with someone who's mind is made up. It doesnt even matter because they organization is more in line with Amen supporters than people like you. He is the future right now whether you like it or not.

 

He needs to either shoot over 30% from deep this season or stop being a PG and we need to refocus everything around him driving, as the roll man in the P&R/lob threat and pull ups 10 feet from the basket. It's clear we're not getting any other swings so they need to figure out FAST if the PG experiment really does look like a flop and if so completely redesign the strategy and focus towards getting him the ball in motion and maximising his usage finishing plays. If he's the superstar he needs to be the superstar.

 

Those aren't counting stats - those would be points, rebounds, assists, turnovers, steals & blocks.

FT% is not a counting stat nor is A/T ratio.

I pointed out that he declined in shooting from every distance, the only thing that improved was FT% - from last year to this year and then again declined in the playoffs. I posted all those numbers. Indisputable while people are telling me how much he improved.

That's where I stated it was too small of a sample size to determine anything - it was a total of 8 shots, in the playoffs of which he made 2.
If you want to use that to say he's going to shoot .250 going forward instead of the .216 he shot during the season, by all means go ahead. Maybe he can bat 8th ....

The main issue with Amen is his shooting - He has to shoot better. FT% or A/T won't matter. And I don't ignore them - I even admit Amen is a very productive player despite his shooting woes.
I just discount those things because they don't really matter to the conversation - Amen turning into a superstar. Just because he shoots 77% from the stripe isn't going to make him a superstar. Nor is a 2:1 A/T ratio, like that's actually great numbers for a point guard or something .... that's the bare minimum. 39 year old CP3 posted a 4.625:1 A/T ratio and shot 94% from the stripe during his year with the Spurs - that's good point guard numbers.

My entire point is that he's no franchise player, not someone who should be untouchable and definitely not someone you "Build Around"
What's going to make Amen a superstar is shooting and when those numbers decline year over year and again in the playoffs, it makes you question the upside.

 

You continue to ignore the context that efficiency goes down as usage goes up.

 

To those of you who state Amen is special - Give me One Stat where he stands out.

 

Dude, I've watched literally every game since VCR's became a thing ....

 

He regressed in some areas and improved in others

 

You compared an entire season to 6 playoff games. But here’s some interesting Wemby info for you.

Reg season
29 min
25 pts
11.5 rebounds
3.1 ast
51 FG%
56% efg%
62 TS%
Off rating 120

playoffs
34 min
23.8 pts
10.9 reb
2.7 ast
48 FG%
53 efg%
60 TS%
Off rating 114

Most of his numbers declined in the playoffs despite playing more minutes. Is he regressing as well as a player?

 

in the playoffs as a junior/3rd year NBA player

most in minutes - most playable - most impactful - rarely unplayable
highest in on/off - knows how to win - outscore and stop opponents from scoring
6th in potential assists behind shai, jokic, cade, barnes - he will be a big playmaker/point forward - has the bball IQ, court vision, and feel for the game
34 players had at least 14 field goal attempts Amen is 2nd in FG% overall efficient
58 players avaraged 32 minutes a game Amen is 3rd in def rating behind Wemby and Hart
gets to the line as much as Jalen Brunson despite having 7 less FGAs

most special and untouchable on the rockets ask Stone and Ime or make a poll

 

LoL .... I'll leave you to your fantasy.

 

He engaged with your question and you responded by being insulting and belittling.

If you want to be some numbers-based truth teller, as you cast yourself to be, then you should engage and not be dismissive just because he disagrees with you.

 

Dunks per season. (201)

I believe he’s the shortest player in NBA history to get 200 dunks in a season.

It’s a stat, that’s been dominated by Giannis. Shaq has the all time high. Rudy Gobert and Evan Mobley are other guys that have been towards the top with over 200 over the last 5 years.

There’s no bad players on this list. It’s significantly higher than prime Dwayne Wade or Russel Westbrooks best seasons.