The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

Doing Amen a disservice with this extreme focus on half court offense. He’s an elite grab and go player. Giannis/Westbrook type. Look at how those guys play has scaled right alongside their rebounding numbers and focus on that.

Peak Amen will be at 10-12 rebounds per game.

There’s not a single answer to the half court offense, keep using him all sorts of ways depending on situation and matchup. On ball some, some dunker spot, a lot more as a screener and roller, keep working on the 3 ball over the years that’ll never be a strength but he may me able to pull off some Josh Okogie type good on low volume wide open corners in his late 20s

 

This just isn't true, especially when you consider age. Jimmy Butler shot under .2 from 3 at 22. Hardaway, .267. Pippen: .175, .273, and .250 between 22 and 24. Webber was a sub .3 3 point shooter for his career and had multiple sub-.2 seasons.

 

If Amen took a leap in the playoffs, it was a leap backwards.

 

We're not just talking 3 point shots - we're talking any semblance of a jump shot.

Your insistence that Amen is anywhere in the same league as these guys is tiresome. He's not - end of story.

 

No, what’s tiresome is this board’s seeming lack of understand when it comes to player development. Amen is well ahead of several of the guys I listed when they were 22/23. But hey, think he’s a finished project - ignorance is bliss.

 

lol this post is really absurd. So, he went down marginally in a few areas, actually improved in a couple areas (3P% and assists), was the most impactful player by a mile via on/off stats, and his overall line was actually improved (19.2/7/6 v. 18.3/8/5 for the regular season). Yet you want to pretend there was some massive drop-off? Spare me. Reactionary nonsense.

 

I knew you'd come back with counting stats ..... but don't forget he played significantly more minutes.

Now for the per 36 numbers which shut down your argument.

Regular season -

Scoring 17.6
Rebounds 7.5
Assists 5.1

Playoffs

Scoring 15.7
Rebounds 5.7
Assists 4.6

And to call it an improvement on 3p shooting by increasing his percentage by .034 over 6 games and 8 shots, while factually true is stretching the truth - its still Piss Poor.


He wasn't more productive in playoffs at all, both statistical and counting stats show - He wasn't good. There was no leap.

Don't fool yourselves.

 

Im really excited to see what he works on this season. I would imagine similar to last year: handling, threes, pullup jumpers. Last year he really focused on just getting the form right. This year probably will be just shooting the ball a lot and also the dribble transition to a jumper or explode off the hesitation

 

Improvement / growth is not linear nor is it guaranteed.

When you are already bad at something and regress considerably, it leads one to believe that real improvement shouldn't be expected.

I get it, Amen is your last hope at a franchise player out of the lottery picks and you want to believe he's going to pull through .... It's like your version of a Hallmark movie where everyone gets a happy ending against all odds.

 

That 2022 draft was weak. Even banchero and chet aren’t great and highly inconsistent players. Who was a star after the top 2 picks? Who isn’t a role player with the exception of Banchero?

 

So was Jalen Green. It doesnt prove anything until it happens. Until he actually puts pen to paper. He hasnt done anything yet. Its year 4. He's on the clock. I think this year will show if he's a superstar or just a role player. He needs to start scoring over 20+ ppg and improve his shooting to show he's headed in that direction. Is he a star or is he just a role player. Most superstars you know already. Ant by year three was already an Allstar. Most franchise players by year three are dominant at something. Most have already been an allstar. I think its more likely neither he or Sengun are franchise guys. They are more like 2 or 3. Jalen and Jabari were supposed to be Franchise guys at top 3 picks and both wet the bed. We should be still rebuilding and looking for that guy in the draft or trade KD for that guy.

 

Let’s give him a proper chance this year and mostly I think that we have the roster to do that, need to trade Sengun.

 

Any coach today that tries the slow it down offense... Ime-diately knock off 20 IQ points. Those coaches need an update

 

Altuve!

oops

 

Dude, what are you even talking about? Amen took huge leaps last year in virtually every category. The fact that you want to discard that because his efficiency dipped a bit in a playoff series in which he was, far and away, the most impactful player in the floor is beyond bizarre.

 

Green and Amen are not comparable. Green is flash; Amen is substance. At no point did Green ever put up a stretch of extended efficient and impactful play. Amen has done nothing but that since day 1 - we just didn’t really allow him to take the reigns under post All Star break last year, and he put up borderline All NBA numbers after that point.

 

We will see what % of the cap Amen signs for..... That's the ultimate sign of who will be the franchise player. Clearly there's some distance between the FO and Amen's camp.

I still think Amen and Sengun still have potential to be top 20 players but top 10 seems pretty unlikely. I think last season was telling from a superstar potential perspective but doesn't necessarily rule out there's still growth left. He will be 24 in January.

 

Care to rethink that ?

Last Year

Shooting% .557
2p% .599
3p% .275
FT% .684
eFG% .575

This Year

Shooting% .534
2p% .573
3p% .216
FT% .779
eFG% .545

Literally the only thing that went up was his FT%, everything else declined.

Or should I break out the per 36 stats that show he was much less efficient on higher volume?

There was absolutely NO Leap taken.

Growth? What growth, there was regression across the board. The only thing that makes it appear better is counting stats inflated by an increase in minutes played.
When you distill the numbers down to comparable (Per 36 and percentages), he declined in every metric that matters.

 

I didnt compare them. Im saying Jalen had comparable and looked ahead of some future stars at one point but that time has past. Just because he is comparable to some former future stars in stats doesnt make him a future star as most of them had atleast made allstar by 23. Years 4 or 5 is it. He has 2 years to show he's a superstar in some way. There are rarely superstars that come out of nowhere that old. They usually show more signs than he has shown. He looks elite defensively and thats it. Thats not enough to be a Franchise player. He can be a star defensively but you wont be able to build around him. The closest comp I can think of for him is Giannis and Giannis was already averaging 26 - 27 points by 23.

 

here we go again