The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

I’m stunned that people are acting like “two-way forward who doesn’t really shoot 3s” is some kind super unique franchise player profile. There have been a ton of them, and it’s not hard at all to build around.

Sengun is a far more unique player, and much more difficult on build around. The good thing is I do think there is a world where they can coexist if Sengun improves his 3 shot to a serviceable levels. He’s really not that far off. But, in the pecking order, Amen is way above Sengun IMO.

 

There are literally no teams built around a 6'7 guy who can't shoot at all and with an incredibly shaky handle and only capable of finishing with two hands. Perimeter guys have to be able to shoot - period, and franchise perimeter guys need to be able to shoot even when facing double teams. When has Amen even faced a double team on offense?

That doesn't mean Amen is a bad player - he is a uniquely talented defender and has the kind of athleticism that allows him to finish plays off the ball that many other players cannot - but it does mean that treating him like a franchise player is likely to be more harmful than beneficial.

 

LOL I know what the goal is. That means nothing in the context of what I said. It was a bad series where generally everyone played bad and playing a game of "who did the least bad" to say that person is the franchise is ridiculous. Players have bad and good series all the time. Judging everything off a small smaple instead full body of work is stupid. Jabari shot way better in the playoffs last year than he did this year. Maybe they need a point guard to be more succesfull? In the future we may have a better point so making decisions off of this one series is dumb. Sengun was one of the only consistent scorers last year in the playoffs. Does that no longer count? There are other factors and the stats from this past playoff series doesnt cover them.

 

Well then why didn’t he play all 48 minutes and dominate the Lakers. Hes barely old enough to drink. Is he physically not able to play at least 40 minutes a game?

Even if your theory is accurate at 40 minutes a game while he might not dominate shouldn’t he still be able to at least take the series to 7 games?

 

Not to mention as I said earlier six games is not enough for on/off numbers. Relying on them in the short term often leads to misinterpretations of a player's actual value.
"Analysts and statisticians recommend waiting at least 20 games before trusting an on/off trend. Over just a handful of games, statistical anomalies completely skew the data"
https://www.sportsvisio.com/stories/how-to-understand-nba-stats

 

Yep. Look we all think highly of Amen, and anyone who is a true fan hopes that he blossoms into a star this season.

However its just not the case yet where we are in a position to say he is THE GUY to build around, and even if he was, its obvious that Stone is put maybe the worst roster imaginable to really elevate his skillset.

The fact is the Rockets need more talent. More bites at the apple. More depth. Just more of everything. Then they can be in a position maybe to consolidate and worry about fit. IMO we should have used this offseason to take a small step back, get into the first round, and acquire at least a few young pieces to supplement this young core.

Instead we doubled down, and I'm afraid we are putting Amen, Sengun, and co. in worse positions to grow with no real facilitators, a lack of shooting still to spread the floor (Bogs..I know, but he's kind of old), and an over reliance on aging veterans who IMO just aren't reliable anymore.

Amen is awesome, but I just feel like he's not in the best position to really be the best version of himself that he can be. Instead we are setting him up to have unrealistic expectations, and what could be perceived as failures & exposed limitations.

 

It makes me wonder if they are setting him up to reduce his value as a RFA next year. The DFS trade solidified for me that the Rockets are much more about the bottom line than winning a championship.

 

This is exactly why Dickerson won’t get traded.

 

Is anyone saying Amen or Alpi isn't a brick layer? Sengun sucks at shooting just like Amen.

 

He shoots 28% from 3 for his career and Amen shoots 21%. They both actively suck at shooting and even though it's nice to imagine they will get significantly better the reality is that is likely not to be the case. They are both very far off from even being an average 3PT shooter. How many years did we say "just wait for Antetokounmpo to develop a shot" and that never happened. There just isn't a world both players can share the floor together in the modern NBA if your goal is to win a ring or hell even a playoff round it would appear. Everyone but Orlando and Houston has figured out that offense and spacing trumps defense and the playoff outcomes show that.

 

Sorry, I totally disagree with your assessment. Amen does not have a “shaky handle,” and he doesn’t have to “finish with both hands.” If that were true, he wouldn’t have a career 2.0+ assist to turnover ratio.

The idea that all of his plays happened off ball is ludicrous. The second half of the season, he was driving to the bucket like crazy, which is why, yes, he is often doubled teamed - defenses crash when he drives because is he is incredibly effective at it.

Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Pippen, Magic Johnson, Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, etc. There are ton of comps for Amen.

 

Last season, Sengun shot .3 on two 3pa a game. Bump that up to .33 - .35 and that’s adequate.

Also, why are the Cavs never mentioned when people make this argument? Mobley was literally a worse 3 point shooter last season than Sengun.

 

Or he continues to put up bricks and airballs. The team need to figure out if they want to run a post centric offense with Sengun at the hub and shooters surrounding him or an Amen centric offense with him going downhill and creating also with shooters around him. They both can't be on the floor together in either option. The sooner the team picks a direction the better.

 

The only player who's a little like Amen on this list is Giannis, and the size differential is substantial. Giannis can go over or through anyone in the league due to his height and his ability to palm the ball. Everyone else has/had a decent jump shot, and Magic had some of the best court vision ever as early as his rookie year. Amen is nothing like any of these guys. Right now, he's more like Ben Simmons with a healthy back and attitude but inferior ball handling and passing.

 

Again, his stats declined across the board

Regular season stats -

FG% .534
3pFG .216
2pFG .573
eFG .545
FT% .779
Rebounds 7.8
Assists 5.3
Turnovers 2.4


Playoff stats

FG% .488
3pFG% .250 (8 shots)
2pFG% .513
eFG .500
FT% .707
Rebounds 6.9
Assists 5.7
Turnovers 2.5

And if we're being honest, this decline follows a similar decline across the board from last years regular season stats.

Amen Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Like I said, you can say Sengun or everybody sucked .... but propping up Amen like he played well or made some kinda leap is a f888ing joke. It's a complete falsehood. There's the numbers for all to see.

Like I said, saying Amen was better than Sengun means little - neither were good and cherry picking one stat when all his personal stats are down across the board, you cannot say that "Amen made a leap" - they all played bad, Amen just a little less bad than the others.

Why hitch your wagon to either one of them?

 

don't sleep in Amen's passing/playmaking. He's 6th in potential assists in the playoffs.

 

Alpi acttually "declined" as well

And a "declined" Amen was still our best overall player in the playoffs

 

This isn't about comparing Amen to Sengun. Sengun sucked and that has been admitted from the get go but Amen sucked too.

Sengun is NOT the franchise player.

Amen is NOT the franchise player.

I don't understand playing one against the other here .... Get ridda both of them and find some players without holes in their games a mile wide.

 

Amen is the most untouchable on the team

Ask Stone ask Ime live with it