Are you referring to Luka, Brunson, and Flagg? Because Brunson is the only pick that wasn't a consensus. And if you're attributing the picks to owners, Brunson and Luka were picked under different ownership. I assume you think we got the Green draft pick wrong. Which other(s)? Stone become GM in Oct of 20 -- so his first draft was 2021. His first draft he got Jalen and Gun. His second he got Jabari and Tari. His third he got Amen and Cam. His fourth he got Reed. I get the ceiling is high and it's really difficult to win a ring without a true franchise player (Pistons proved it can be done), but all of those are solid picks. Nobody in sports media is criticizing us for those picks, are they?
I don’t care what ownership group or front office drafted Luka or Brunson. Tilman had been here almost a decade and his front office has yet to acquire a marquee franchise player. Those are the facts.
As far as I'm concerned. The Rockets moving forward need more players that can dribble drive and shoot the 3. Tari Eason- should be gone. Let him walk Jabari Smith- bench player, not willing to accept? Gone Sengun- trade bait- send him elsewhere J. Tate, A-aron Holiday, DFS, - Gone Clint Capela- shell of his former self, Gone. That leaves 6 or 7 players we need to replace. I would definitely trade for Jaylen Brown. He plays d, can shoot the 3, dribble drive, penetrate, pass, and score. It opens up the court for other players. SG/SF KD doesn't make a difference if they trade him or don't, but he shouldn't be the one trying to break down a defense in the 4th quarter. He's a catch and shoot guy in his spots. Replace Clint and Alpi with a center who can rim run and stretch the floor a little. Pg we all know Fred is not the answer, but I don't think Reed is either. Reed is a shooting guard in a point guards body. I don't like those players, always a defensive liability. He can have 1 more year to prove himself, but probably wont get the chance, because he's not a PG. Can't manage the game. So Fred will get the most minutes. Like I said this teams needs 3 point shooters and people that dribble penetrate. That was the difference between last year's team and 24-25. Jalen Green could dribble penetrate and FVV and DB could knock down 3s. My Rockets rotaion PG: Ayo or Scoot Henderson/FVV SG: Jalen Brown/ Amen Thompson SF: KD/Jabari Smith PF: Kel Ware/ jabari C: Kel ware/ Steven Adams Bench Cason Wallace Colby White ?AD Miles Turner PJ washington Evan Mobley These name are just of people the Rockets should shoot for, or similar players. I really dont care about the youth movement anymore. It's all geared up for the teams with the 1 and 2 pick in the draft. We've only had that once at the 2 pick. Didn't know he was going to be a mental midget. I would give us a 3 to 4 year window for contending gain some draft capital and rebuild. Maybe we find the next Lebron or Cooper Flagg.
Sure, it is a fact. And when put into context it doesn't mean much. How much does Tilman weigh in on the draft picks, anyways? Which years of Fertita's ownership did we miss an obvious opportunity to draft a franchise player (2017 is when Tilman bought the team). And shouldn't it be Stone, the actual Rocket employee, that gets the credit or criticism for draft/personnel decisions? Contracts and tax decisions, sure, I am positive TF has heavy say in those decisions. But nothing indicates he's in there like Jerry. I just don't know what you expect. We didn't get the number one pick. We didn't get to draft Flagg or Wemby. We weren't bad yet when guys like Luka came into the league. How is that on TF or Stone? In terms of acquiring, who do you think we could have gotten?
man, the odds were never in favor of us getting a #1 pick. But if u get 4 top 4 picks in 4 yrs, you got very lucky, and that should have been enough to find a franchise guy. If every championship team depended on getting the #1 pick, that would not be tenable. The warriors dynasty never had a #1 pick. The most recent championship Celtics team did not have a #1 pick. The championship Denver team did not have a #1 pick. Last yrs’ championship okc team did not have a #1 pick. The championship Knicks team had KAT, who was a #1 pick, but they had to trade for him. u can maneuver around the draft. U don’t have to pick where ur draft spot is. You don’t have to bust on #2 picks like Jalen Green. U can also make trades for good players. U can sign good players. Plenty of ways to build a championship contender. Stone has failed.
Well, let's take a quick look. The all-star caliber players Stone could have drafted and didn't: Already got there Evan Mobley Scottie Barnes Jalen Williams Jalen Duren Might get there Stephon Castle Keyonte George (but Amen will probably have a better career) ? There's some value left on the table there for sure. However, none of them really profile as the "best player on a championship team", now or in the future, IMO. (A surprising breakout could still happen for some of these guys, some moreso than others.) I think overall Stone has just been OK at the draft. I don't really blame his drafting on us not having a young superstar. He could have been better at the top of the draft (despite the awkward fit, I think I'd rather have Barnes or Mobley than KD right now). He missed some value later on in the draft, although it was mostly just good roleplayers. Maybe he could have made some trades to move around and get the right guy in certain spots. Hard to really judge that. I definitely like his drafting more than I like his ability to assemble a roster that fits well together and emphasizes strengths / hides weaknesses.
Who’s to say Sengun or Amen aren’t franchise guys? That’s still up for debate. Who is a franchise guy that we COULD have gotten. Out of those top 4 picks, you can only look at who was available. Looking at the first round: 2021, who’s a clear cut franchise guy at this stage? Scottie? 2022, who’s a clear cut franchise guy at this stage? Jalen Williams perhaps. 2023, who’s a clear cut franchise guy at this stage? Castle isn’t. And the two guys above Reed haven’t done anything or shown their franchise guys. Who is it you expected us to draft to have become a franchise guy by now that nobody else drafted?
again…draft, sign, trade. Sign Austin Reeves (when we had the chance), trade for a guy like Brunson or Deni (other teams did), maybe don’t bust on the #2 pick and take Mobley or Barnes..or trade down…or trade out for future picks (like we were offered in the Reed draft). Maybe dont fumble away the Nets picks in two really good back to back drafts for picks in weaker drafts. How bout not making one pick in 3 yrs? Why can no one on our roster dribble? How bout doing a better job actualky developing your own players. As I said, plenty of ways to build a contender. We deserve better going into year freaking 7 of Stone.
Is Austin Reeves a franchise guy? Who out maneuvered us and made these deals? Nico Harrison doing something stupid twice shouldn't be a knock on the Rockets. You're mad at the Rockets for not doing something that was an option. I just don't understand how you don't see how much of this is just luck on the part of other teams being bad at the right time or being on the end of a crazy deal -- such as the Lakers getting Luka. Just because another team was able to make a trade doesn't mean we could have. We don't all have the same assets and draft picks -- and we were good for a while so we didn't stack assets in the Harden years and had to wait a couple years for draft picks due to the CP3 trade. Cmon man, context matters. Green isn't a bust. He may not likely become a true superstar -- but he's still very much capable of becoming a perennial allstar. He had a great finish to his Rockets regular season, a shitty first playoff, then basically injured all year after a trade then had a good playoff performance iirc. Do you know how many #2 picks don't become franchise guys? Look at the last 20. Many of these guys are in the same boat as our guys. Clearly talented, but will they be able to become franchise. Some teams getting lucky and finding a franchise guy doesn't mean it isn't ridiculously hard and unlikely. Last 20: Harper (could) Sarr (doesn't look like it yet) Miller (not yet) Chet (def not after those finals) JALEN Wiseman (nope) Morant (sure, but also problematic) Bagley (ya, nope) Ball (nope) Ingram (nope) Russel (nope) Parker (nope) Oladipo (got me there, HOFer ) MKG (negative) Willliams (nope) Turner (nope) Thabeet (nope) Beasley (nope) Durant (there's one of two) Aldridge (yes) I am not saying don't hold Stone accountable. I'm not saying don't criticize. You're definitely right about development. It has not been sufficient. I've seen improvement though from all of our guys. I don't know how that can be denied even if these young guys slip into bad habits at times. Look at them under Silas. Look at each subsequent year. They developed/are developing. The one pick in three years (you're referring to the immediate post-Harden years, right?) were because we LOGICALLY assumed CP3 was donezo as a player in this league and we still had Harden. It was trade Harden right after going to the WCF and reset -- or gamble to appease him. You're mad we gambled to try and keep Harden? Okay. But it's not unreasonable not to be/to understand the dilemma. I agree trading out of this draft was likely a mistake. Time will tell. Also the draft hasn't occurred yet so maybe just maybe we aren't sitting it out. All of this is just to walk you back from the cliff. We are not the Washington Wizards. We were clearly on a trajectory of being a top team and possible contender. We had one bad year and the organization chose to eat the year instead of risking a trade. Love it or hate it, it certainly isn't as dire as you make it. I'm really excited for this team to prove everyone wrong. If a trade presents itself, I'll always entertain offers. But if we go into next season healthy with pretty much the same team, I am confident we will be a top 3 team in the West. Edit: what I agree most with is that nobody on this team outside of FVV can dribble and that was a damn travesty. You can fire everyone for that. We don't deserve a basketball team. I HAVE BETTER HANDLES THAN THOSE GUYS. Not really.
Very well thought out post. With the drafting one player in 3 yrs I was referring to the last 3 drafts. Assuming we don’t draft anyone in the 1st round this draft (because we don’t have a draft pick in this amazing draft), that means that in the last 3 yrs the only player we have drafted is Reed Shepherd. When u consider we went super old with the KD trade and see how far away we are from contending, it makes no sense to not draft for 2yrs. Like we have it all figured out so we shouldn’t be taking swings on more yiung talent. It’s very poor judgement. On the no handles thing, it appears to be an enormous blind spot in our talent evaluation. Reed was a poor pick not because of his size, but because of his size along with not being able to dribble. That’s the kiss of death. Reed’s handles have to get light years better or he’s just gonna be a role player shooter off the bench. That’s busting on a #3 pick. When u look at how poor the rest of the team’s handles are, u have to question our talent evaluation. And the fact that our head scout who drafted Thabeet on your list is concerning. My larger point is that it’s just not good enough. Also, what is the plan? What is the direction of this team? What is the identity of this team? Who are we building around? Why is our best player gonna be 38 next season and how does that fit our timeline? Why doesn’t our roster fit together. Why have we lacked shooting for over 6 yrs? I think we are a 1st round exit playoff team or a play-in team. We should be much better than that going into yr 7 of the rebuild with all the picks and cap space we’ve had.
I do mostly agree with this. Especially the fact that I would’ve continued to try to draft in the first round and I do blame stone for not having his pulse on the fact that the lottery would change that quickly. He should’ve known enough. I think the goal with having a couple years where they didn’t pick in the first round was to try to lengthen out some of the contract logistics and so it is still possible that we end up winning that trade, and that thought process ends up materializing. I definitely would like to see a clear cut direction going into this year. Personally, I prefer to build around Amen/Reed/Eason(If they think he will be healthy)/Smith. I would have no opposition if we were to pivot to that immediately and deal Sengun and Durant.
Oops I was thinking Kat and posted Brunson by mistake. Regardless being 29-32 its all the same age range. Jalen 29, JB 30, Kat 32 they all have 7+ yrs left .
You forget the context in that 2 yrs ago we were already swimming in 7 draft prospects we needed to figure out. Punting the picks back and getting 2x value was the correct play. You cant just keep adding and adding rookies, you need time to collect and select first. Aruba is a die hard Morey stan and wants to blame Stone for everything. I guess he forget we didnt have a pick last 2 yrs cuz of Morey lmao. Blame Stone for player development even when thats the coach's job. He blames Stone for hiring Ime but then credits Ime for getting to the Finals with Boston. Huh? So Ime is a good coach but Stone is still to blame for Ime's bad coaching? lol
Stone, as Morey's underling, was pushing Tilman more for the Westbrook trade that cost us picks. Morey wasn't convinced but had his orders.
I don't think we should trade for Jaylen Brown (it depends on the price, to be fair, there might be a price where I'd do it) but if you buy anything Brian Windbag says, Boston is really going for it on Giannis, which I suspect will mean a three-team deal if it happens Maybe a four team trade with KD to Miami or Golden State? Shrug.
Ok? So why are you now blaming Stone for everything how do you know there isnt an underling now as well? Btw Fertita wanted Cp3 traded for WB not to mortgage our future for WB. The exact price for WB was up to Morey to negotiate and he didnt give a F thats why he bailed after giving up the farm. The amount of assets we spent both trying getting and dumping Cp3 was astronomical, and he was only on the team for 2 yrs and also got maxxed anyway. Why didnt we just get him in FA and had to trade for him mid season? Morey also the same guy who traded Capela straight up for whatshisname and went Microball with PJ Tucker at C. Capela went on to average 15/14 on the Hawks while we got stuck with Robert Covington. But Im sure thats still on Stone amirite? Morey had no agency and wasnt responsible for any move, thats all Stone operating in the background.
Cp3 was an offseason trade and we got him for very little. The price to get off him was astronomical (though because of luck it ended up being not much).
