I don't see Stone being behind the Westbrook trade reported anywhere. Do you have a link to this insider? If it's a Clutchfans poster I wouldn't consider it a fact. Even if you have faith in an anonymous insider it should be corroborated somewhere. You can grade the trade at any time you like. You simply won't have the benefit of hindsight until the years have actually passed. In 2008 people thought the Pau Gasol to the Lakers trade was one of the most lopsided trades of all time. It wasn't until Marc Gasol's career actually progressed that people thought maybe Memphis' return was pretty decent. Like I said, I wouldn't even give Stone a good grade if he got two #1 picks in a row from Brooklyn. If he drafted players like Anthony Bennett and Markelle Fultz back to back he would deserve an F.
Ah, now I understand what u mean. For context, I wanted to broaden the list of destinations for trade and didn’t want to narrow our return trade value by dealing with the only two trade destinations Harden desired. I also wanted a young blue chip prospect back, not just picks. I didn’t understand why we had to trade him to Philly or Brooklyn only. I wanted to trade him to the team with the best offer regardless of what Harden wanted. that was probably nieve. But so what if I didn’t want all picks and an old injured oladipo? What does that have to do with Stone fumbling away our chance to get a true franchise player in the 2026 draft?
I didn’t say it wasn’t a mistake or bad judgment. I said it’s easier in hindsight for you to judge his actions. I also said we literally had no stars and our team lacked talent in its first year of rebuild so he took a gamble on talented players that just didn’t have the character and maturity to last as professional players. Also KPJ was only problematic with one team (cavs) before we signed him. I don’t necessarily agree with him giving KPJ another chance after the Lucas incident but his contract protected us. And who takes accountability or expresses publicly their mistakes? Morey never apologized or took ownership of not acquiring players that could drive to the basket. And he never admitted his theory of relying on 3’s and over reliance on Harden was wrong.
just to clarify, I’m counting USC as the first team he was kicked off. Maybe he was also kicked off a high school team too. No idea. But I take your point, it’s definitely easier to judge in hindsight. I guess my point is similar to @Nook: I just don’t think Stone is good enough to get us where we all want to be. And I don’t think the way he communicates to the fans and the press does him any favors.
KPJ was kicked off his high school team… he was kicked off his college team… he was kicked off the Cavs.. He was a bad risk because of his off the court issues. He was abusive to his teammates and coaches… Then he was kicked off the Rockets as well… abused a woman in college and then in the NBA. Some guys you don’t take a chance with when you are young and rebuilding.
Sure sure…. Definitely seem to focus on the negative and go so far to comment on the type of person Stone is. And you also claimed Stone cares more about his job than winning. My issue is your cause and effect ain’t adding up. KPJ…. Wood… Olodipo are pretty irrelevant considering we have longed moved on from them and quickly pivoted to tanking.
Said we are probably a 2 or 3 seed instead of a 5 seed. OKC and SA are clearly better but maybe you have a punchers chance with a competent NBA point guard running the offense. Hell, OKC and SA are head and shoulders better than any other team in the entire league - they also have generational talents on their rosters - Something Stone never had the opportunity of landing. They might both have multiple of those players on their rosters (SGA & Chet) (Wemby & Harper). I know we all want this Rockets team to compete for championships but we gotta be realistic and factor how the cards fell in our expectations. No point guard for the full season and no way to fix it without mortgaging the future. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. No Wemby, no SGA ... no amount of coaching or Gm'ing is going to fix / make up for that in the modern NBA. The 2004 Piston's don't exist in this version of the league.
This is game strategy. BKN has no reason to tank. Even if they were going to move Bridges “as you claim” would they move him for just picks and contract filler or try and get some actual players. Or would BKN use its assets from the KD trade to pair another “all star” with Bridges. Swapping the BKN picks with Suns was a calculated gamble. What has happened is that BKNs brief tanking window is over.
Stone isn’t risk averse… except apparently KPJ is a head case and risky player… Not risk averse…. But will take a calculated gamble on PHX/Mavs future with BKN picks… Not risk averse…. But intentionally put all the playmaking basket into a few players. I like Stone much more than Ime… but there this weird dynamic where you can either hat
I hear you. I agree we’d probably be the 3rd seed with FVV. But we are miles away from contending with SAS and OKC precisely because the point you made: we don’t have a franchise guy and those other teams do. I’m realistic about that. So let’s go out and find that franchise guy, right?
The Rockets would likely be the third seed with a healthy FVV and Adams. Would they be better than Denver in the playoffs with those guys? It’s possible. The issue with the Rockets is that they have KD for the full year, there is a good chance he misses a lot of time next year based on his age and history - but we will find out. Personally I wouldn’t want to settle for third prize - I would keep rebuilding until I got the pieces… but I know that most owners wouldn’t allow that. Also keep in mind it isn’t just Wemby and Shai. OKC and SA overall have done an excellent job in building organizations that identify players that fit their philosophies and then developing them. It is also fair to point out it isn’t like Stone passed on Wemby or Shai. He passed on some good players in the draft, but no one that is a top 10 type franchise guy. I personally hope they mix it up this off season, being in a young front office guy - scout, get creative in trades and team building.
You want to believe Morey did the most unMorey-like thing ever and traded an analytics darling (CP3) and picks for an analytics nightmare in Westbrook, suit yourself. The source is strong. We don’t need the benefit of hindsight. There’s no such thing as needing 9 years to decide whether someone is good at their job. It’s just so outlandish to even say that. You yourself would never give someone 9 years to do that or you’ve never been a business owner and you actually think that’s plausible. It honestly can’t be taken seriously and I know deep down you know that if you posed this theory anywhere, no one would believe it.
I didn't credit Morey with the Westbrook trade, if you read my post. I said Fertitta pushed the trade through and told his basketball ops team to do it. The source is Fertitta himself. I don't know who your source is at all and you won't even name them. I can't find stories about Stone betraying Morey anywhere on google or on this forum other than you. Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta tells final hours of Paul, Westbrook deal I don't need 9 years to analyze the job Stone is doing. His job of running the franchise is more than just the Harden trade. But I'm going to take that time to evaluate that trade because any judgement I have now will change as the draft picks pan out. I really like the Reed Sheppard pick, which was part of the Harden trade by the way, but why would I give Stone an A grade on draft day? Sounds like some people would give Stone an F for trading away the 2026 Brooklyn pick, but if they drop to 7th and Phoenix gets the #1 pick next year are they going to give him a better grade? If so, what's the point?
You said that sources should be corroborated somewhere. Who corroborated Tilman’s story? Why bother sharing the source if you have already decided not to believe it? It doesn’t matter if the picks have panned out fully yet. I don’t consider him an F, I’ve defended him on occasion. I was just addressing the idea that it’s reasonable to state that he be judged in 9 years. It’s not reasonable but I don’t think you’re ready to admit that because we’re in a debate dynamic. In reality though, it’s a preposterous statement. 5 years is plenty of time to judge a rebuild.
I don’t really have anything to add but I felt like my “sad stone” avatar needed to make an appearance here. Carry on…
@Nook dropping troofbombs and things we’ve know for years but some people still can’t handle Daryl + MDA both simultaneously realized that the golfing was better at their respective new locations. Had nothing to do with anything else
Tilman is a primary source and the owner of the team. If he says he told his team to do the trade then I am willing to credit him with the move. I said claims from anonymous sources should be corroborated because they can claim anything and we have no way of knowing who they are. If your source is Morey or someone else known in the organization, I'll believe it. If it's a random poster on this board I'm not going to accept it as fact as you have. I've already judged the rebuild. If you think 9 years is unreasonable to judge the trade, then fine. If you say Stone is behind the Westbrook trade and refuse to answer why, then fine. We don't need to believe each other's sincerity.
I don’t know. I didn’t like how the team had no real vet leadership first couple years of Sengun/Green and I think that hurt their overall development with KPJ and Wood as their mentors. But I get why he tried with them post Harden. Gotta try something. I think this off season is important if we don’t win it all. What’s the next move. I have said time and time again Sengun Amen doesn’t work in this era of basketball. Need to drop one or both. I’m leaning towards dropping Sengun. I think it will be fair to judge him after 26-27. He has the team at phase 3 to win. If they don’t after a retool year in 26-27 with Durant then that’s a failure.
What are you all complaining about then (More Ime than Stone). Stone built a team that, in the offseason appeared to have a shot at a top 3 seed in the west AND has a very long runway beyond KD and Fred. This team isn't a finished product, despite not having a pick this year (that's really on Morey & Tilman) they have future assets from Brooklyn, PHX and Dallas. The only real complain I have is that he didn't have a backup plan for the loss of Fred in case of injury or Reed not working out and instead he spent that on DFS. Once that contract was on the books, the roster was pretty much settled for the season because of the apron and the absolute fact that there were 7 players who you just weren't gonna trade and aside from DFS who was a negative asset, no one else made more than the minimum. You had no shot at landing White or Dosunmu who were very likely to be rentals without adding either DFS who is a negative asset or one of Reed / Amen to a trade and that just wasn't happening. Maybe you could have picked up Alvarado for Tari but that's terrible value and would have cost Reed essential developmental minutes sitting behind a career backup? I still say giving Brooklyn most of their picks back in exchange for 2x the assets while keeping the 27 swap was a great trade for the Rockets - otherwise they aren't a bottom 4 team, but middle of the pack as they had a ton of money to spend in FA and would have done so with no incentive to suck. He gave them 2 picks in exchange for 4 and kept the 27 swap rights giving them a very short window to improve. You still hold PHX pick in 27 and they likely regress. He's taken a bottom of the lottery team and turned it into one that while not top 4 is in the next rung of the ladder without any real lottery luck, still has great assets and will have cap space beyond the vets windows. A winner now, a potential winner later and maybe he lucks into a true #1. He's left himself with great options across the board.
I’m not really complaining. I think he has done “okay”. I don’t think he has done anything terrible or great.
