Fred VanVleet Extension

The Rockets have been sort of competitive for exactly 1.5 seasons. That's not a number vastly greater than 1. If you don't think 1 playoff appearance say much, then you probably shouldn't be thumping your chest on 1.5 seasons of high level regular season play either.

 

I'm thumping my chest on the available data, which would suggest they have been a very competitive team in that time frame. That is all. I'm not interpreting it beyond that suggesting they SHOULD have been any more or less competitive. I'm living in reality.

 

Help me understand what point you are making. Are you suggesting playing hard is not important?

Last season, the single biggest issue was that the Rockets didn't have a closer. They fixed that. How about you let it play out and see how it goes before declaring the season an adjunct failure before the all-star break.

 

@Hemingway is putting their own hopes and dreams into Amen being this point wing who just needs all those pesky players like FVV, Reed, Sengun, KD, and Adams to just got with the Amen program.....

 

50-win regular season into first round loss is "very competitive"? Are you also of the opinion that the JVG era of the Rockets were an unmitigated success story?

 

Oh, it's great that they play hard.

The point is I don't think having a good regular season record means you're a top team, for the reason I stated before. You said in previous posts we have been a top tier team for the past 2 years and I strongly disagree.

 

Yeah, now they have a closer, they just lack an initiator .... Reed isn't ready and Amen's, for as much as he does well, isn't capable of running an offense.

I wouldn't call it a failure right now, but they do need to readjust some salary around the FVV injury to bring in a veteran guard.

Who? I don't know.

 

I think so…. Considering how we were just literally tanking two seasons before making the playoffs and losing in 7 games against a veteran team. Can’t just bring up JVG and pretend like this is our 3 or 4th season making the playoffs or just hand wave away all the major injuries to Yao and TMac..

If anything, I think last season made too many folks think we are better or more ready than we are. I’m certainly guilty of that.

 

Well we had an initiator but they had a season ending injury in training camp. Just bad luck.

I think people underestimate how much the FO is still seeing what we in our young, developing core. Despite, trading for KD we are not truly “all in to contend”.

FVV’s absence puts the spotlight on the young core to setup and execute an offensive plan and it hasn’t been pretty.

 

Dude, you need to relax and maybe go for a walk in the woods with fresh air or something. Life isn't so black/white.

During the JVG years, the Rockets were definitely competitive. Go look up what the definition of competitive means. I agree with you the playoff results were lack luster but context matters!!!

JVG had a 55% winning record in the regular season and made it to the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons. That is competitive. However, the Rockets never made it out of the 1st round.

But let's break down his playoff run because CONTEXT MATTERS:
03-04: The Rockets played prime Shaq/Kobe Lakers with young Yao. Is that JVG's fault?
04-05: The Rockets were up 2-0 on the Mavs but lost. Most of us true fans remember that was one of the worst officiated series of all time. The refs basically gave the Mavs 2 games. Tim Donaghy later admited he instructed the refs to alter "points of emphasis" which swung the momentum of that whole series. Never mind the blown Michael Finley out of bounds call that could have changed the outcome of that game/series. Was that JVG's fault?
05-06: Rockets lost to the Jazz in 7 games. I'm having PTSD remembering that series as Carlos Boozer worked over Yao. TMac was also stuggling with his back and was clearly well past his prime in that series. TMac having back problems, was that JVG's fault?

Context Matters!

So yes, the Rocket fielded a competitive team. Absolutely. They just were never able to put it together and the chips never fell their way. But they were a good team.

It's sports. Ish happens. You can't control every variable. What you can control is acquiring talent and then you go play the games in front of you.

Maybe do some breathing exercises?

 

Heck noooooo!

 

Im still triggered we have folks defend this garbage ass pg.

He wasn't worth it when we choose him over harden and overpaid his ass.

He is still not worth it at 25 mil.

Kinda sad for a team blessed with harden, cp3 and Westbrook we transitioned into wall, kpj, pseudo green and then fvv. Disgusting.

Not even sure if amen or reed is our future pg either

 

I do know the definition of competitive. Which is why if you had used that word to describe the Rockets I would not have responded. But you didn't. You said the Rockets were "top tier team." Those are different words with different meanings in the English language. And in particular in the NBA, top tier team by the definition of masses of fans is about playoff success. If you don't believe me make a thread and ask people here which they would prefer, 65-win 1st seed regular season and 1st round exit, or a 45-win play-in team that wins a championship? Which is the "top tier" team? I'm going to guess most people don't have the same definition you do.

 

In THIS season, as of today, the Rockets are generally regarded by most NBA analysts as a top tier team.

You are trying to define "top tier" as a binary question, which it is not. Two things can be true at once. You can be a top tier team that simply never put it together in the playoffs.

As a similar example (but not exactly the same), there are plenty of all-time great players that never won a championship. Most reasonable people acknowledge championships don't define greatness.

In a Rockets example, most fans around here would acknowledge the best Rockets team that never was was the '86 Rockets team. That was a dynasty waiting to happen, but didn't happen. Similarly, the Magic team with Shaq and Penny is considered a top tier team that never was. They even had a 30-for-30 about that team.

So no, top-tier isn't strictly defined by playoff success. OBVIOUSLY you'd rather have playoff success than regular season success, when it's all said and done, but it isn't a binary question. As of today, most consider this team a top-tier team.

Anyway, if you want to keep debating the semantics of how you define "top-tier", that is boring. My main point is I don't understand the vehement disgust about their current position, when viewed in context, they are doing better than most

 

The Rockets lead the NBA last season in wins during the Clutch. They are horrible this year when Ime doesn't have his emergency FVV button to press in the 4th quarter to organize the offense.

I think the Rockets for the most part are doing well despite needing shooting and some playmaking. I'm not sold that it has to come from PG, but PGs tend to provide those values. I am not sold on adding a SG that adds some creation, shooting, but doesn't play defense well, and is a turnover machine as a cure all. It would help in the regular season

 

Don't agree with everything you said, but there is only one championship team a year. The Rockets are the best team without a Top 10 player. Mitchell and Luka are the only players that were drafted later than a Rocket's pick or traded during Stone's tenure that are Top 10 players. Not sure the Rockets had a shot at either of those players.

The Rockets have some good and bad luck. It is incredibly hard to win a championship without a Top 10 player.

 

I feel like Amen is really starting to round into form on running the offense. Averaging 7.1 assists to 2.1 turnovers the past 10 games. IMO what we're lacking right now is moreso shooting.

 

If the Rockets had made the finals last year and someone called them a "top tier" team, I would not disagree with that notion even though they didn't win the title. There is a difference between losing in the 1st round and the finals. In fact, I would call 2018 Rockets a top tier team and that team didn't even make the finals. But that's not the 2025 Rockets team. And you trying to equate them is disengenous. Every Rockets fan would absolutely take the 1986 or 2018 season over 2025 season by a country mile.

 

Rox are not in the best possible position due to missing out on top talents in 2022 and 2024 and hiring and extending Mark Jackson 2.0 however they are still in a great spot and to pretend otherwise is just people hating on the team as CF loves to do.

 

Honestly, I don't think we disagree on much.

The FVV injury really changed things, it appeared on paper at the time that they had all the ingredients to contend.

They just didn't have a plan beyond FVV other than to lean into Amen / Reed and while that hasn't been a total failure, I think it's been somewhat disappointing from both of them. The FVV injury really put them in a no win situation.

The "big mistake" I think, was doubling down on forwards with DFS instead of getting an insurance policy for Fred getting injured or Amen / Reed not working out in an almost best case scenario.
They already added Durant & Okogie to Jabari, Tari, Amen, Tate, Green. The shooting definitely improved with the addition of Durant but they failed to replace the ball skills of Jalen in the process. DFS was totally unnecessary.

They should have spent that money on a hedge for FVV / Reed / Amen.