The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

Don't forget teams are trying to scheme him away from the action now too - if Amen just sticks to the man he has, that person will go into the corner on the opposite side of the action. He is doing peel switches to get himself into the action as most high level defenders do, but its just to say - similar to when defenses are loading up to step a team's best offensive player, the same process happens to the opposing team's best defensive player to scheme them away from 'on ball' or 'help' activities.

 

Agreed.

 

What's his best position? I genuinely don't know. I don't think anyone knows, Amen and the Rockets included. But what's your opinion?

 

This is Ime's team. He is the Franchise player.

 

I'll answer your question but out of courtesy can you go back and answer the one I asked you first/twice?

He's best as a SF/PF like last season. A shooter at the 5 would elevate him further, because you can have him in the dunkers spot without clogging the paint too much. That's why his impact was better there. Allows him to do more of what he's good at and less of what he's still learning.

In the future, his best position will be PG. It will require some bumps and bruises but once he gains experience and improves skills, he'll get there.

 

I feel like Amen punishes teams who don't stop ball and is getting better at finding driving lanes by utilizing big bodies in the mid post/elbow to create enough space for him to operate at the rim. He basically has range anywhere in the paint so if a late screen while he is getting downhill can squeeze him a window - he is doing a good job of converting or getting fouled in that window. It's not always pretty but it's effective in a very Westbrook/Giannis type of way.

I think what he has done since Dec 1 is sustainable and that's legit all star production - his game score average is 19 since then - 20-30 is considered all star level production. I have legit concerns of him as a true offensive hub because I know 10-12 of those points he gets today are just smart cuts, out working guys on boards, and in transition - but a guy who can get 20ish-pts/8ish-reb/6ish-ast/1.5ish-stl, and putting the other team's best player in jail by being an elite defender IS a franchise level player....just don't confuse that with "hub of the offense" that a franchise player usually is.

 

I think that this gets at the core disagreement among folks on here. IMO, the idealized version of what you described is a great player. Probably the second or third best player on a team that can win a championship. A Scottie Pippen. A Jalen Williams with less shooting and better defense. HoF path. Not a franchise player.

IMO to be a franchise player for a team that's truly trying to win a championship, you have to be an offensive #1. That's it. That's the job. Wing defense is a plus. Otherwise you can still be a HoF'er and an elite second banana, or a franchise player for a second tier franchise that isn't really trying to win a championship.

If you're not a guy who has the ball when it matters, personally I don't think you can be THE franchise player for a serious organization.

 

NBA media really ruined nba discourse. KD himself said this isn’t championship or bust season to him.

 

I didn’t say championship or bust this year. I said it’s go time and the team is trying to win now. This is well documented what they’re trying to do. it’s championship or bust in these 3 Durant years.

 

2 years is plenty of time for reed and amen to develop into the players we want. Amen has been averaging 20 ppg on 60 TS, guarding the teams best defender, and has a 2-1 A/TO ratio, all while playing out of position. When fred’s get back he’ll be in genuine all star convos. His game looks way smoother compared to november as well.

 

Since dec 1st those are his averages

 

Your question: "Do you acknowledge we voluntarily moved him to a new position?"

My answer: "No, I do not." Amen was drafted as a PG. Every single mock draft or other pre-draft evaluation I saw described him as a PG. Here are a few of them:
https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2023
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...ba-mock-draft-latest-predictions-all-58-picks
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/

So when you say his best position is not PG, you prove my point. It would be great if he was a huge PG, but he's really not. Instead he's either a wing who can't shoot or the shortest PF in the league.

I will say he has some intrigue as a PF if you surround him with shooters. But Kevin Garnett he ain't.

 

im glad you’re optimistic. We don’t have much time. Who knows if Durant will decline next year

 

I'll bite. If Amen has a jump shot, he'll be a 3-level scoring threat. He'll be like LeBron who can do everything on the court. Nobody cares what position LeBron plays. He's just him doing everything.

Right now, Amen is a Swiss Army knife. He does a lot of things very well, some of those things even at elite level. But he is still a knife, not a gun. You can't shoot with a knife.

 

If he does than it doesn’t matter. We have a young core and amen and reed will take massive leaps to he 20-25 PPG scorers, and starters. We also have plenty of draft capital in 2027 and then 2029.

 

Yes, and if pigs had wings they would fly.

 

Ok, I see why you feel and think this way. Thanks for answering the question.

 

Fair perspective, but to me there's no difference between offense and defense. IMO Amen can be a max-worthy player with or without a jumper. The jumper makes him Lebron-like which is an archetype that has historically been worth more than the max.

What's the "gun" on defense? Can a guy with a killer jumpshot and porous defense be the gun?

If the gun only exists on offense, we definitely disagree here.

 

What does bust even mean? You mean after 3 yrs Sengun, Amen, Jabari, Reed and Tari all hit their prime?

Championship or bust means the team is screwed if they dont win a championship, like GSW, Bucks or Clippers. These teams mortgaged their future for the present. Rox oth are gonna be better in 3 yrs than today, they will even have those 2027 swaps by then adding even more youth to the team.