The "franchise player" debate has been settled. It's Amen.

FYI : that's not their list in order since there were 3 lists - what you posted is just the order in which they were discussed. They each had their own list that's hard to follow during the podcast. For example, they disagreed on Sheppard's placement, from what I can tell, they all had Sengun in the top-5, but in different spots, etc.

 

True we don’t know each one’s individual list, but what was clear is that they all had Sengun and Reed ahead of Amen. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast for themselves. All of them agreed that Amen is unlikely to improve any further. And the brief mention of Jalen Green is both hilarious and tragic.

 

Sengun is the teams best player but not its best prospect. Luka is probably a better player today than Wemby. Taking Luka over Wemby would be asinine. Not exactly the same thing but Amen is a better prospect than Sengun by quite a bit for many reasons.

 

Amen is not a PG. Sorry.

 

Also just want to note, and this is something I've also been most down on Amen this year, is that his shooting just hasn't improved. Not from 3s and not from mid-range. That's the big reason why he's not ranked higher, and I don't disagree with the reasoning. Amen really just need to shoot better.

 

That's what I think most people don't understand. Making a G/F who is a non threat from 3 or the midrange work in today's NBA is so complicated. There aren't many stretch 5's who are even passable defenders. Sure, you can play Amen alongside Alpi or Adams, but the spacing is never going to be good enough for the playoffs. It gets even worse when coach feels it's ok to play even 3 non shooters in a double big lineup.

I just don't see how Amen can be a number 1 option if he doesn't develop a shot. Even if Alpi develops one, I don't wanna see him camping in the corners just for Amen to take over every possession. It's a complicated puzzle, IMO we should be seriously considering trading Amen while his value is still pretty high so we can work on an offense that will be functional when we are ready for the playoffs.

 

These stats are the perfect example of surface level analysis. Those are incredible rebounding and shooting numbers for a guard... but he's not a guard. All of those rebounds and shots are coming in the paint. His awful assist-to-turnover ratio tells a different story. Most of his perceived value is tied to his being a guard or a wing, but he's actually an undersized PF. Maybe you think he still has max value even as a tiny PF, but our 9-9 record during the stretch cited in the tweet suggests that building around Amen is a pathway to mediocrity.

 

We have some good players, but no MJs nor Hakeem (at least not right now).

So long as good players get paid good salary, and not a franchise-level salary, then a team is in a good spot. If FO only says words like untouchable, they are not in a good spot when negotiating with player's agents.


Trae loses some of his speed. Ja's injuries piling up (hip, calf), their market value is what it is now. Luka is a few steps slower, but his skill ball keeps him valuable.

Some player's prime/peak is early-mid 20's, not necessarily late 20's. If you are a player who's only athletic ball, that works in the near future.

Amen played hard during the L steak, but those were still L's. A franchise guy would lead the team pass the Kings and Blazers.

Keep developing the young guys, but don't pay them the money they haven't earned, or might never earn. Team's depth is already tested, to keep good depth or get better depth (as clutchFans posters complain), need to have the spare salary to do so.

 

Amen will not be traded for anything less than Giannis. Ime has an irrational attachment to him. If Reed committed the kind of unforced turnovers that we regularly see from Amen he would never see the light of day again, but Amen continues to lead the league in minutes.

 

24, 24, 31 last 3 games. His mid range was missing the first part of the year, but is coming around now. Sounds like a number 1 or number 2 scoring option to me. Despite all the hand wringing by fair weather I told you so fans, Amen is getting into the lane at will and converting ft’s as well. Not being able to score against zones is a coaching issue mainly, and your supposedly great 3 pointers shooting like sh*t.

 

Unfortunately the problem is mostly Ime.

Sengun is shooting 33% when open or wide open from 3 (i.e. equivalent to 50% from the field). He's shooting 43% from the corners. He's shooting 41% when the defender is 4-6 feet away.

He can easily get Sengun the hell out of the paint when Amen is attacking. He just won't do it. Fine. Let's say he's not happy with that.

Why can't we get any stretch 5 off the bench so that at least when Sengun is sitting, we can have Amen go ham on bench units? We can't find even a backup stretch 5? Come on. We had Landale and Jay Huff. Both perfectly fine backups - especially if they're going to be your 3rd string C like Capela.

I don't agree with trading Amen just because the coach can't figure it out. That's a priceless asset as far as I'm concerned. Defense-only coaches are a dime a dozen.

 

Well this is one thing we don’t have to worry about. Amen is untouchable, probably even more than Sengun. No way Stone is that stupid. Bunch of band wagon fans around here, whether it’s going uphill or downhill.

 

But you understand we voluntarily and without any compulsion slid Amen over to a position where his advanced stats and metrics would go down and we did that as an investment in the future? Meaning we certainly don't expect the deflation to be permanent, but it was impossible to avoid. More importantly, if we wanted to win the statistical rankings of podcasters, we could just move him back to his more experienced position.

So basically imagine if Duren moved to SF or Sarr moved to SG. Surely you understand all their numbers would drop? That's a disingenuous assessment since we know the context as a fact.

Here's what MOST GM's think rather than a few podcasters: Amen is most likely to break out into a star among all the young players in the league. That GM survey has been correct about these things literally 80-90% of their predictions. Trust me, they have access to PER.

 

I think Ime doesn't LOVE Sengun because he wants to turn him into a Tim Duncan prototype but in fact he's naturally more like Jokic. What confuses him is Sengun's culture makes him praise and trust Ime no matter what (elder, coach, etc.). Still, Ime spent the first 2 years here trying acquire C's. We now have 2 lumbering C's behind Sengun. The other guys he had his eye on are Robert Williams and Brook Lopez. He clearly believes in a slow C who's a much better defender than offensive player. Doesn't seem to believe in modern archetypes - despite Sengun working so hard to become an average rim protector.

Sengun fans should be worried. If what Codman has reported is true - that KD is demanding alignment and everyone but Sengun is bowing to him - it will be the last straw Udoka needs. If you're challenging KD, you better bring your A game. The 21 points on 19 shots getting shut down by Draymond in the playoffs has to be his last such playoff performance.

Amen fans should be worried because what comes after that is a C who's even less able to step out of the paint. More defense, more rebounding as always with Ime.

 

I think he will get there but it’s a slow process. Players don’t get jumpshots over night. It’s a lot of repetition and hard work and then executing in scrimmages and real play. I compare him to Jerami grant who didn’t have a mid range or three coming out of college. It took him 5 years to develop a shot and 6 or 7 to be a consistent shooter. We can’t wait that long to develop Amen if we want to win now. This is the issue. That’s why this trade doesn’t make sense to me.

If we waited and developed him green and reed sheppard we may have something. But we are in win now mode and both him and Sheppard hurt this team with limited offense and mistakes. So here we are in this mess stone and udoka created.

 

I don’t agree with this at all. Sengun hasn’t played a traditional duncan role. Udoka has used his strengths in terms of handling the ball full court, iso top of key and elbows, and post. These are his strengths. He is a bit undersized so Udoka pairs him with another big at times. And brook lopez is a good pick and roll guy that can stretch the floor. He’s not a traditional big. I think he likes Adams and Capela for pick and roll and defense. We are weak in paint defense so he was shoring up our paint D.

 

Why is Amen untouchable? We are in a difficult situation that Stone, Witus, and probably Udoka created. As I mentioned earlier it takes years of hard work to develop a player and Anen isn’t a normal player. He can do everything but shoot. Not just shot but implement a dribble pullup. That takes years. (Jerami Grant).

But we are in win now mode. The timelines don’t fit. What to do? Either jump ship on Durant end the run or acquire better players. This is why i advocate trading him and Sheppard and sengun. Any one or all of them. This team can’t win now. Anyone that thinks we’re winning anything this year is fooling themselves.

I can really see them retaining Amen and getting giannis. I would love to see Giannis and Turner here. We are better with that trade (with a pg). Unfortunately that may have to wait off-season. I expect big changes off season. Eiher durant goes in an ugly split, Sengun or Amen.

 

Udoka and management were worried about points in the paint. We were 11th worse last year. Landale sucked at paint defense. Landale not a good pick and roll guy either. Its about pick and roll and paint defense which both Adams and Capela gives you.

We have an Amen problem. The man can’t shoot more than 10 ft. I don’t doubt he can get a mid range and maybe 3 around year 6 or 7 but we can’t wait that long. Win now. Thats likely what fertita wants as well. Win now mode. If its win now mode you get Giannis get turner. Get another point. Giannis and durant will bring a title 100%.

The calculus is simple. If you want to keep sengun then get a star SG or point in here whoever that’s available. I don’t necessarily think it brings a title but can be very close and betters our chances. KD sengun and a star guard.

 

Rookie player getting hate is just insane