The fact that Udoka gives Reed the minutes even when he is still learning and making mistakes tells me that he is intending to develop the kid with the risk of costing wins. It's a risk, not a sure loss. Yeah, it's not that black and white. And a lot of it is also probability and chance. While an inexperienced guy like Reed may cost a game here and there, he also has good games that contribute to winning. The coach still makes substitution adjustments for the goal of winning that particular game. But in the grand scheme, there is a pattern. You have to give chances to developing players to learn in-game even though doing so might lower the chances of winning. So development is not all on the player. The coach has to make decisions based on his judgment of whether it's worth the short term risk to play certain young players for the long term benefit.
I know I'll get some hate for this, but if the Rockets aren't playing, I closely watch the Clippers and Kings (or the Wizards, Pels, Nets or 76ers if I have enough wine). Obviously, I watch the Clips for James and because I believe that team could turn things around pretty quickly if they can add a player to combat Beal's fraudulent promises..(And, Nic is a friend, underrated vet/ locker room presence). As I understand, the unresolved CP3 situation is a combination of money, fluctuating interest and some pettiness/resentment on both sides . CP wants to play for a playoff team/contender and mgmt is trying to be respectful of that request, but interest in CP drastically changes from day to day . His basketball legacy and reputation is incredible, and yet, teams are considering how to integrate his "passionate" voice, the role he wants, and with all of that, the best way to give him a decent farewell tour that the Clips couldn't and wouldn't follow through with. Teams know that they can low-ball the Clips with next to nothing, and yet, they keep trying to get a decent pick or player back. CP's team has made it clear that they want him released (which would be the respectful thing to do) and Lawrence Frank will lie to every reporter but he despises CP even more than Ty Lue. Allegedly, he is interested in finally playing with LeBron or reuniting with friends on the Spurs or Thunder. (There aren't enough minutes on OKC). Personally, I think he would be an awesome leader with limited minutes for Detroit , but he wants to be as close to his family as he can. I haven't heard a great deal of interest from the Rox And, or should go without saying, but (outside Ime) KD and Freddy have the biggest say in potential changes. I think everyone knows that KD is not much of a CP3 fan... I hope the Clips do the right thing and let him go. They've wasted too much of Chris' time, which is more disrespectful than sending him home in the middle of the night of a long road trip. Yes, CP3 is a bit of a tyrant. He forgets when to shut up. He enjoys some conflict with teammates because he thinks it improves how they compete and mature. But, if you put aside some of the problematic behaviors, CP3 can still give a team a stronger impact on the court than the majority of backup point guards. That mid-range jumper in the 4th quarter is still one of the most dependable/clutch shots in the game. Don't forget : He was not as old, but CP3 almost smoked us with those midrange daggers in game 7 when he played for OKC. If not for James blocking Dort and Russ making a foul/steal, the Thunder nearly embarrassed us and would have doubled down on how bad the Russ for CP3 trade was. (I love Russ, but that trade didn't even look good on paper, let alone how Russ' skill set were not going to complement James' game or the Rockets' reliance on raining 3s) Apologies for rambling on (maybe my coffee and medicine reacted poorly in my liver lol), but it seems like CP will end up in LA or with Wemby. Detroit and OKC as dark horses and the Knicks because of ties to Mike Breezy and how MSG would give him the best sendoff to retirement. Wish all of you well with protection from your own teammates/family stepping on your foot and causing hyperextensions. I'm in my Denver home and it's absolute panic and dread at the moment for Nuggets fans. (I don't want Jokic hurt, but I love seeing this rabid, vile fanbase being humbled a bit) X° -Cod
thx @Codman for the insight. One thought I have about CP3s camp wanting him released. I don’t think they want him waived, bc he would then go on the waiver wire, and potentially have his vet min contract claimed by a team he doesn’t want. Claim rights basically go in lottery order. Could be why it’s taking awhile, bc he wants more control over his destination via trade.
Still same problem. Buyouts are part of waiving. The agreed buyout doesn’t consummate until the contract has cleared waivers. Not to mention the Clips wouldn’t save anything cap wise, bc they have to fill that roster spot, which is only a 2yr vet min hit.
Interesting that Fred has that much say given he is not playing and on a short term deal. I never knew about the Denver fan base until i recently watched a Rockets game where the female announcer was saying it would be a shame if KD got injured when they brought him back with 5+ mins and less than 15 pt lead after losing the prior game by blowing a 24 pt lead. Just couldn't believe how nasty she was, never seen a broadcast crew like this before.
I suspect that Stone forced his hand by not adding PG depth in the offseason. Even if FVV didn't get hurt, Reed would still have plenty of backup minutes because there would not be many other choices.
Reed has shown up in big games and single handedly won us big nationally televised games. He has often been the only other guy that could create his shot other than KD when Bari had an off night. His highest scoring games this year were against Denver and GSW, we are beyond the point of Ime just trying to develop him, he fills a need and is important to getting the teams wins, they double KD and Reed is the #1 option on offense at times right now w Sengun out. He may be the 4th or 5th option on paper, but depending on the matchup and what teams throw at KD and Sengun, Reed ends up being a key contributor
You are made my point. Coach isn't playing Reed because he's trying to develop him. He's playing him because Reed is giving the team the best chance to contribute to some Ws. If coach can win the game AND develop Reed simultaneously, that's the best case scenario.
Last year he played Reed beginning the season and then got yanked in favor of Holiday. Here is a direct quote from Udoka in 2023: "playing time and roles are determined by the pursuit of winning" Here is a quote Udoka specifically made about Reed: "You're going to come in and get the playing time that you earn," Udoka said at Sheppard's introductory press conference. "I think you saw that last year. We implemented some young veterans, but the young guys, the core of this team, is really what's going to elevate us and push us going forward. Reed is in the same situation as the previous six draft picks -- compete, and guys will get what they earn." He's playing Reed over Holiday now because he's playing better than Holiday. Period. He's not playing Reed in an effort to try to develop him. If FVV were playing, Reed would be getting a lot less minutes this season, no doubt. All players make mistakes and young players make more mistakes. So Udoka has some tolerance of mistakes especially if that player doesn't let that mistake bleed into other parts of the game. If you miss a shot, you better still come down and play defense. Also don't repeat the same mistakes. Udoka isn't "developing" Reed. He's playing Reed now cause that gives Udoka the best chance to win some minutes while he's on the court. Period. Give ALL the credit to Reed for getting himself ready to play those minutes.
My point is that it's not that black and white or binary. It's a give and take, trade off. How much a coach tolerates a young player's mistakes depends on whether he believes the guy has the potential to be better by learning from his mistakes. But he of course needs to manage the risk so that it does not have a detrimental effect to winning. Reed was given the minutes early last season because he was deemed worth being developed. But he was terrible and it started to affect winning. So he was pulled from the rotation. This season, Reed had some good games and some bad games. He has not been pulled. Part of it is FVV's injury. Part of it is his good games shows his worth. Cam also had a few pretty good games last season. Some people here questioned why he was given more chances. Well whether you agree or not, Udoka didn't think Cam is worth the investment and he was shipped out. It's probably the same with Jalen Green.
Okay - but how is that relative to what I said? I never said that Sheppard was playing at all costs to develop him. He has to play relatively well to see the floor, and the loss of FVV opened up minutes and gave Sheppard opportunities quicker than he would have otherwise gotten. FVV is a known quantity, and he is a good player - but he lacks the upside of Sheppard. The best outcome for the Rockets would be an outlier - someone, such as Sheppard took several steps forward and improved the overall upside of the Rockets this season. Maybe we are talking over each other? If I am off, I apologize.
While yes, the CP3 trade was bad, did anyone really think CP3 was going to bounce back athletically after that second season with Hou? I thought he was done and so while I did not like Russ as a player and a fit, I didn't think there was anyone else we could get that had a chance at being a dynamic player next to James. What other team was in a situation like OKC to accept such a deal given the circumstances and assumptions at the time? Always felt it was a this or nothing move -- desperation. Feel you on the hyperextension. Hyperextended mine 5 weeks ago and overslept my ortho appointment this morning.
The point I'm making is a nuanced difference, but it's essential. Coach isn't playing Reed to develop him or manage "upside". That said, Reed is indeed developing. So it's plausible there may be benefits. However, I'm confident we'd have won 2-3 more games at this point if FVV didn't get hurt. It's plausible that FVV's injury enabled Reed to develop faster. My point is that isn't coach's approach.
I agree I'm oversimplifying it a bit into a binary question but I'm intentionally doing so to make a point. I don't think you can under estimate how important winning is ...in the eyes of a head coach of a professional sports team. Winning is the most important thing, and it's the second most important thing. And probably the 3rd. So yes, the coach wants his players to develop but he wants that to happen in the course of getting Ws. Often, winning a game comes down to one play or two. So the tolerance is extremely low for trying to realize "potential". Folks around here, and most fans, see potential and feel that developing potential is the coach's responsibility. It isn't. HS and college are over. It's the pros now. Put up or shut up. But I agree if you can take a young player and get them some reps, then great ...as long as they are doing all the things required to get the W. There is no A for effort in the pros. Teams that are focused on developing young talent are called losers. "Potential" means you haven't done it yet.
It was a Tilman trade -and it showed. Anyway as somebody mentioned, CP3's productivity arc was pointed decidedly downwards in 2019 - the miraculous 20-22 revival in terms of both production & more importantly - availability - still surpises me. It honestly makes me kind of sick to think that Paul's worst season between the ages of 30-36 was his age 33 season in Houston with Harden at his peak. Such shitty luck. Anyway he's washed as hell now - there's not many 40 year old players for a reason.
Kd and harden not a cp3 fan. Hmmm I wonder why. @Snow Villiers “In the streets, in the club… all the real mothafukas show me love.” - Slim thug
I never thought it was coaches approach? It is more than plausible that FVV’s injury allowed Reed to develop quicker - he isn’t getting 26 minutes a game with FVV available. No idea how many more wins the Rockets have or don’t have with FVV. He is very good at a handful of things that are important but he also has limitations. Reed Sheppard has a higher ceiling - and that sort of variability is important when you are trying to beat very talented teams like OKC. Right now Sheppard is 14/4/4 in 25 minutes a night, with a low turnover percentage. Is that better than FVV? No, not now… but if Sheppard continues to blossom and is putting up 18-20/6/6 the last month of the year - he may be better than FVV and improve the Rockets playoff chances.
