What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

Zoox doesn't have a trunk.

 

Ford Takes $19.5 Billion Hit in Detroit’s Biggest EV Bust
Automaker is shifting to hybrid gas-and-electric vehicles

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...4?st=BprTzs&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

link should work for all.

 

This is what happens when you dont use enough lidar

 

lol. probably drives 10-2 at 59 mph.

 

Ford is being nuked by people for this but they were losing ~$30K per EV sold, even more for the F-150 Lightening. They could not sell enough EVs to need scale production, so their unit costs were insane. (Even if demand were explosive, I don't think they were prepared to ever reach scale production of EVs). So obviously when the $7,500 rebate ended after last quarter, the economics for EVs became even worse. I can't wait for their 4th quarter report.

In an interview, Jim Farley used switching to hybrids as a cover for this move. But there really is no cover. They simply cut bait and ran, which was probably the right move for them at this time.

 

Expensive large EV pickups ain't it. Who was the target audience for the F150 EV? Micro-penis suburban dads with lifted trucks are not gonna get one. People who use it for pickup things are not gonna deal with range/charging....

 

link will work for everyone

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/ford-el...c?st=BTHYuR&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Ford Learns a Brutal EV Lesson
The car maker takes a $19.5 billion write-down on its electric-vehicle business.
By The Editorial Board
Dec. 15, 2025 7:02 pm ET

Not long ago, auto makers were touting electric cars as the future. Well, now they are slamming the brakes hard on that future as market reality has hit them like a 16-wheeler. See Ford Motor’s stunning announcement Monday that it will take a $19.5 billion charge on its electric-vehicle business.

“Instead of plowing billions into the future knowing these large EVs will never make money, we are pivoting,” Ford CEO Jim Farley said as he explained the company’s plan to boost its lineup of gas-powered cars and hybrids. Ford will also scrap its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup, which has been a favorite of the EV-loving press.

Ford has lost $13 billion on its EV business since 2023, with bigger losses expected in years to come. Last year Ford lost about $50,000 for each EV sold. The truth is that the business case for EVs has always rested largely on government subsidies and mandates. Now that this combination of government favoritism and coercion is mostly going away, most car makers have much less reason to make EVs.

The Biden Administration sought to force-feed the EV transition with ramped up fuel-economy and greenhouse-gas emissions rules. Car makers were required to produce increasing numbers of EVs, which they had to sell at a loss because consumer demand was weak. The Inflation Reduction Act’s $7,500 EV tax credit boosted demand, but not enough to make the cars profitable.

This year’s GOP tax bill eliminated the tax credit in October, causing demand to fall off a cliff. Ford's EV sales fell by roughly 60% in November compared to the prior year. The tax bill also eliminated the penalty for noncompliance with the fuel economy mandates. Earlier this month the Trump Administration announced it will ease fuel-economy rules through 2031.

This deregulation has enabled Ford to cut its losses, sizable as they are. A $19.5 billion charge will hurt, but it’s better than spending tens of billions of more dollars on making cars that not enough Americans want to buy. Ford can focus its investments on gas-powered trucks and SUVs that are popular with customers and earn—dare we say the forbidden word—profits. If Ford makes more money, workers also make more in profit-sharing.

General Motors this fall also rolled back its EV plans and took a $1.6 billion charge. The American car industry would be stronger today had its CEOs not embarked on the EV joy ride with politicians promising subsidies.


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Meanwhile, in California:

https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/16/t...-autopilot-and-full-self-driving-judge-rules/

 

...Tesla had a similar problem in China.

Tesla Removes ‘FSD’ Name From Its Autonomous Tech in China After Regulators Halt Program

Tesla’s autonomous technology sees changes in China

Stricter oversight from China’s government has forced Tesla to change the name of its Full Self-Driving (FSD) technology, which isn’t actually fully autonomous. In China, FSD, which operates at a Level 2 out of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) 5 self-driving levels, will now be marketed under “Intelligent Assisted Driving” instead of its previous “FSD Intelligent Assisted Driving” label. News of the name change arrived a couple of days after China suspended Tesla’s free FSD trial in the country one week after its launch. The autonomous technology’s free trial was initially scheduled to run from March 17 to April 16, allowing Tesla’s Chinese customers to use the program on urban roads.

Tesla’s limited FSD run in China debuted to mixed reviews, with documented instances of the technology collecting fines for breaking the law. Situations commonly resulting in fines included FSD-engaged Teslas driving in bike lanes and making illegal turns, according to Electrek. One driver collected seven tickets in a single outing with FSD. China monitors many of its roads via CCTV cameras, with fines automatically given to lawbreakers.

The EV maker’s “Enhanced Version Automated Assisted Driving” feature also changed its name in China to “Enhanced Assisted Driving” while the free basic self-driving software, “Basic Version Assisted Driving,” or Autopilot in the US, tweaked its name to “Basic Assisted Driving.” Tesla sells its Intelligent Assisted Driving system in China for RMB 64,000 ($8,818.59), and its China customers with Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) can upgrade to Intelligent Assisted Driving for a slightly lower sum of RMB 32,000 ($4,409.29). The EV maker altered its overall description of these features in China from “Autopilot Automated Assisted Driving” to “Assisted Driving.”...

 

why does the judge hate EV sales?

 

Probably some liberal activist judge in commifornia.

 

ford are repurposing their battery factories for residential and commercial energy storage. more homes with solar and batteries could help with public acceptance of evs. when the energy has been paid for or is free, people will start eyeing evs. they're also projecting their ev div to be profitable by 2029.

it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. the rest of the world is going electric but trump's self-imposed embargo could see cars turn into today's version of south africa's apartheid era coal powered cars. unique for the wrong reasons.

 

fell behind on public transit to the rest of the world..
now ironically will fall behind on autos..

 

energy will never be "free." there's always a cost, it just may be transferred to another part of your budget.

 

Ford will have the same issues competing in battery storage as they did in EVs: Reaching scale production.

LOL, ironically, Tesla is also the dominant player. Their growth in battery storage has been explosive the last two years and will continue in 2026. The U.S. definitely needs another huge dog or two in the fight, but Ford definitely won't be it.

 

I think Honda has been buying batteries for their hybrids from Toyota to escape tariffs. Not sure about for their EV's based upon their/Acura's rumored future dive into them. Acura's already cancelled an EV (the ZDX) built on GM's Ultium platform due to "market conditions". Not sure what will happen with Honda's Prologue, which, I believe, is built on the same platform.

The problem with what you're saying is that most of the stuff you're talking about is not affordable for the masses in this country where it seems everything is overpriced, relatively-speaking, in comparison with much of the rest of the world. I don't know a ton of people itching to buy solar panels at today's costs. Then you factor in if you want to store the power, the cost of the batteries, and you've priced a vast majority of the population out.

 

Honda built some very good hybrids in the late teens, including the Clarity and Insight. I know two people who have them with well over 100k miles, and still going strong.

The new Civic hybrid has gotten rave reviews, and sounds like a blast to drive. I'd happily own one.