How do you dismantle the Russian shadow fleet absent the application of force? The ability to bring force to bear is the bedrock of every legal system and framework. What is your suggestion for dismantling a shadow fleet? Ask the Russian shadow fleet to please stop operating very nicely? Of course the application of force is required. I disagree with your assessment that the U.S. and/or NATO allies dismantling these sanction evading shadow fleet tankers will lead to war. It even remains to be seen what country will claim ownership of these tankers. Their ownership is intentionally opaque. Bringing a grievance would require these countries to admit they are the actual owners of the vessel after going through great lengths to obfuscate that fact. Even if they do admit to owning these tankers, what are Venezuela or Russia gonna do about it? Declare war on us? Get a grip. If a random European country seized a shadow fleet tanker in the Baltic you'd piss your pants with joy but because the Trump administration did it in the Carribean it's "PirAcY"
Given the above, Venezuela should expect the US to return its OIL and the US to do whatever it sees fit with the tanker. I suspect that Trump will not return the OIL since no one will make him.
The only thing that would make this whole Trump thing we've been through this past decade make any sense is if we found out the dude is just a closeted homosexual. It's the only way this whole reality we've been forced to live makes any sense. If he would just come out of the closet and embrace the Liberace in his heart maybe the world could finally move on and we could get back to normal life.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. The context here is literally in the thread title: we're on the verge of war with Venezuela. This isn't about one tanker seizure in isolation. We've deployed over 15,000 troops, carrier strike groups, B-52s, submarines, F-35s, and conducted at least 20 military strikes killing 80+ people. This admin is drafting "day after plans" for when Maduro is ousted. Trump authorized CIA covert operations. The SoS says Venezuela's government isn't legitimate. You're talking about seizing Russian tankers in the Baltic like it's remotely comparable. It's not. Russia isn't facing a U.S. military buildup on its border with regime change planning. Comparing sanctions enforcement against Russia to what's happening in Venezuela right now is nonsense. The scale, intent, and context are completely different. So here's the real question, and it's not just for you but for anyone reading this thread: Do Americans really want another Iraq? Another Afghanistan? Another decade long occupation sold to us as quick and necessary, that costs trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, and leaves the region worse off than before? Because that's where this this admin is heading, knowingly or not. And if you can't see that risk, or worse, if you can see it but you're fine with it because of who's in office, then I don't know what else to say.
That is certainly one way to pivot away from the previous conversation and not address anything when the questions get tough and you have no coherent or logical responses.
Nah, every one of my posts has been about the risk of war. While you seem to dismiss the risk. Perhaps you're so narrowly focused on dismissing this as anti-Trump bias, you can't see the obvious.
Do you want to see the Russian shadow fleet interdicted or destroyed? Or do you want to just let it continue to operate earning billions for the Kremlin and its allies? How do you do so without the application of force and the risk associated of conflict associated with that? Theres a risk of war in everything in terms of geopolitical maneuvering. Directly arming Ukraine increases our risk of war with Russia. Do you oppose that?
You keep trying to make this about Russian tankers when we're talking about Venezuela. We're not seizing a few tankers, we've deployed around 15,000 military personnel to the region, conducted military strikes killing 80+ people, and are planning regime change. That's not sanctions enforcement, that's preparation for invasion. As for Ukraine, there's a massive difference between helping a country defend itself from invasion and launching offensive military operations for regime change. I can't help you see what's clear.
The subject is the seizure of a Russian tanker. The United States just seized a Russian owned tanker off the coast of Venezuela two days ago. People posted articles about it and began discussing the merits of such an action. You’re currently running away from such a discussion and trying to shift the goalposts and conversation. If France or Sweden boarded and seized a Russian shadow fleet tanker you’d cream your pants in joy but the USA does it and it’s the worst thing ever. I didn’t realize you were such a big fan of the Kremlin.
The subject is whether we're heading toward war with Venezuela. That's literally the thread title. The tanker seizure is one piece of a much larger military operation that includes strikes, troop deployments, declaring venezuelan airpace closed, and regime change planning. You're the one trying to isolate it from that context. And no, I wouldn't be cheering if France seized a tanker while simultaneously deploying 15,000 troops, conducting airstrikes, planning regime change, and having their officials declare the target government illegitimate. Because that wouldn't be happening. The tanker seizure isn't the problem, the broader military escalation is. But sure, call me a Kremlin fan because I don't want another Iraq. Real compelling argument.
You can disapprove of the military ramp up in the Caribbean and simultaneously be happy a Russian shadow fleet tanker, under U.S. sanctions from the Biden administration, flying a false flag and engaged in oil smuggling which inures to the benefit of the Kremlin and other governments and terrorist organizations hostile to the West [Russia/Iran/Venezuela etc etc] was interdicted and seized. I haven't seen such opinions from yourself or the leftists in this thread just braindead "PiraCy" comments mostly. I don't want to see a war between the U.S. and Venezuela. I do want to see every vessel in the Russian shadow fleet interdicted and seized.
I'm not sure Dementia Donny is really the most reliable witness to what is actually going on at this point. I appreciate that he is the proverbial "horse's mouth" here (and another part of the horse's anatomy, but that's not relevant in this context) but some corroberation would make me feel a little more sure. Creepy Pedo Great Uncle Donnie may have mistaken "next week" for "today" and the sycophants around him have shown time and again that they will adopt whatever he claims to be true as unassailable fact because they are too eager to please him to actually correct his mistakes.
