They gave a max or near max to 29 year old FVV back then, I am sure worse maxes have been handed out than Amen. GMs also tend to give max due to needs....Amen and Sengün are both Swiss Army Knife players every team can just plug and play.
Exactly. Other teams don't think about fans being disappointed in previous seasons or where such and such was drafted. They think about what that person can do in their system and after further development (given he'd still not be in his prime at that point). Amen Thompson's agent is HIS DAD. lol Good luck with that guys.
Right now not worth a max. If he becomes an all star ok but if not then he shouldnt get more than Sengun. Who else will pay a max for a pg who cant shoot? Nobody even wants Ben Simmons nowadays.
Not everyone has capspace and if they do offer a max Stone can match like what PHX did to Portland. After what happened with FVV I hope Stone learns his lesson and doesnt overpay just because.
Teams like the wiz, nets, etc. would instantly offer him a full max with every bell and whistle that exists the moment he comes an RFA.
He's not even close to being eligible for the true veteran supermax (either in terms of years or honors) so it's really moot.
Here is the projected max salary for a player with Amen's experience, by the way, assuming he doesn't make All-NBA or DPOY: And here is a list of the biggest contracts currently in the NBA https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html Amen is better than some players being paid around that average annual salary (+/- $5M or so), and obviously worse than quite a few of them. The one that always jumps out at me is OG Anunoby, whose role as third or fourth fiddle on offense/defensive leader is similar to Amen's. Yes, he is a much better shooter than Amen, but I think is worse in every other category, and also is a finished product with no potential to become a star player, unlike Amen. If we're paying Amen the max, he's just getting a bit more money than Anunoby on a yearly basis. I don't think that's crazy. That said, as @carl_herrera pointed out, we do have a pretty solid hierarchy of pay on this team and seemingly a culture of guys taking a bit less to help the team win. So it wouldn't be surprising to see him accept a contract a little bit under his max, IMO.
I think Stone has started the CORRECTION process by not giving away Max money - and I don't believe he will give Amen the max - now Amen may force his hand by going to RFA - but even that Max is lower than what the Rocks can offer so it is a win for the franchise. The only one on this team of the young guys that deserves it is Alpi. DD
Once Ime takes Amen off the freaking ball handlers and he goes back to roaming off a wing, help defending, playing in passing lanes, being a complete menace, including blocking shots, then we will see Amen's true value pop off the screen. Rockets are limited right now because Amen is primarily on the ball handlers. Although he's capable and quick enough, he's still 6'7". The Rockets only additionally have Okogie who can stay in front of small ball handlers, but a limited player. Once Amen goes back to playing in the passing lanes and just being a demon defensively, his true defensive value will dictate the size of his extension. In my opinion, it will be slightly higher than Alpi's because of his elite defense and not about his offense which will improve.
Once Reed starts then I think we can determine his worth. He is best used as a secondary ball handler.
Someone like the Kings the gonna clear enough cap space to offer both twins near max to come play on the same team
.....so much misinformation in this thread. Let me try to give a brief TLDR to help inform the conversation for those confused(and please correct me if I miss something). To be clear - Amen is NOT eligible for a SuperMax(can make 35% of the cap - called Designated Veteran Player Extension) because a player must have completed 7 years of experience and meet performance thresholds. Obviously Amen has made an All NBA team but he is still 4 years removed from being eligible - he's not a vet yet. So right off the bat to every single person debating this - you are 4 years early to the conversation. I get what you guys mean, but words matter. Since Amen would be coming off a rookie deal, he is eligible for the Rose Rule which is more than a standard max contract(25% of cap) and gives a team flexibility to offer 30% of the cap(not 35% which would be a SuperMax). Ironically the first player to benefit from the Rose Rule is a young Kevin Durant getting his first non rookie deal with OKC. So now that we cleared that up a quick note about eligibility of the Rose Rule. For an extension negotiated in the off-season after a player's third season, the award criteria must be met in the third season or two of the first three seasons. For an extension negotiated in the off-season after a player's fourth season, the award criteria must be met in the fourth season or two of the first four seasons What that means for Amen and Houston is Amen is eligible for a Rose Rule extension this year because he made one of two All NBA defensive teams in his 2nd season but if we wait until this offseason, he will also have had to make an All NBA team this current season. I bring that up because while he is still an amazing defender, I think he has taken a bit of a step back as a "every play" defender this year since he has increased his usage as a playmaker offensively. Clearly teams are aware how good he is defensively so maybe he still gets voted into one of the top 2 teams regardless but there is a chance he doesn't get voted as one of the top 10 defenders this year. Obviously that is something his camp will be pushing for to get an extension THIS season because there is a risk he doesn't get the vote this season - in fact it's entirely possible his brother Ausar(of all people) could get voted in ahead of him and prevent Amen from being eligible for a Rose Rule extension because some voters may not feel comfortable voting for both Thompson twins here. That is where this is a super unique situation. It's also unique because normally we talk about Rose Rule because a player met performance thresholds typically associated with players who meet offensive standards - very rarely does a player qualify because they were all defense/DPOY candidate - in fact only Evan Mobley(and now Amen) has done that. It begs the question - does a defensive ace who is maybe more average or below average offensively necessarily represent the same contract value as an offensive ace who is more average or below average defensively? Super unique and interesting situation no matter how you look at it. To my own thoughts here - I believe Amen is a likely max contract player but I wouldn't rush to sign him to a Rose Rule extension just yet - I would prefer to see what he can do offensively before the year is out. He hasn't looked great as a relatively raw offensive talent learning PG on the fly so far but I also have low expectations knowing he is doing something very difficult. Amen is a difference maker on a rookie deal right now but do you like paying him $46mil/year like what Mobley is making today from the Rose Rule...or would you rather pay him $38mil/year as "just" a max player contract? For context the cap is $154mil currently. You do the math there but Sengun is making $34mil - if Amen get $38mil, then your "future" is $72mil(nearly half you entire cap) for 2 of 15 players. If Reed comes around like we hope, thats potentially another $30-$40mil in a few years and now you are talking about maybe having $40mil left to sign 12 more players. This move with Amen is not just about Amen - it's about how you field a competitive team in the future if 3/4 of your cap is spent on 3 guys - one of which currently has no jump shot, is limited in the half court as a creator but who helps in virtually every other category. To me, unless Amen is starting to string together 20+pt games at least 70% of the time(lets say 7 out of 10 games) on reasonable efficiency before the year is out, I hedge and offer Amen a max deal and say - hey, if you turn the corner offensively to match what you are already doing defensively, we have no concerns offering you a SuperMax deal after your 7th year of service.
...and one other interesting tidbit to my overly long post - Sengun will not ever be eligible for a SuperMax deal with Houston because of the contract terms he accepted on the rookie contract extension(his current contract). It basically keeps him in a contract during those years when you could potentially renegotiate a supermax and the only escape is if Senung declined his player option in the final year but that would push into a FA market which would invalidate his eligibilty. Kind of surprised Sengun's agent did that - especially given how 'Jokic like' he appears to be this year.
There's a few things wrong in here, ironically. Most importantly, all defensive teams have nothing to do with designated rookie extensions (i.e., "Rose Rule" extensions). You can't qualify for a designated rookie extension via making an all-defense team. To qualify for the designated rookie extension, a player either has to be: MVP once, or All-NBA or DPOY for two of their first three seasons, or sign a max extension with designated rookie escalators after year 3, and then be MVP, DPOY, or All-NBA in their 4th season. That's it. To be honest, this all has little relevance to Amen. I love Amen but the odds of him qualifying for a designated rookie extension are super slim. He's also not the level of player who would even really be in consideration for getting a max extension AND the escalators. Chet and JDub didn't even get most of the escalators (JDub got a small portion), and they just were the 2nd and 3rd best players on an NBA champion, All-NBA etc. The Amen extension question is simply, does he get the full 25% max or a little lower than that, something more like what Sengun got or slightly less? The only full 25% max rookie extensions of the last 3 years: Cade Barnes Mobley Paolo Wagner JDub Chet LaMelo Ant Haliburton Maxey Morant Zion Garland
Is there some kinda historical trend of family-member agents being good at getting players more money? If anything, I can see the strong emotional ties (and presumably lack of experience) making them worse negotiators. But I dunno on this one, I'm just speculating. Also, re: potential, if Amen doesn't show strong improvement as this season goes on, the case for his sky high ceiling is diminishing. We were all head over heals for Amen last year because he came outta left field after the Bari injury to become arguably our best player over the 2nd half of the season. Many of us expected a break-out season this year... But today, he has the same weaknesses as ever AND his defense looks like it took a small step back. Not every player's trajectory is perfectly linear, of course, and it's reasonable to think he can still improve... but I'm not sure anyone is bidding super high right now.
