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What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by jiggyfly, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Ford has a major relaunch - redo of its EV lineup scheduled for 2027. When in 2027 hasn't been announced.

    Since the current EV Lightning Truck and the EV Mustang are based on current (older) technology, it isn't a huge surprise that Ford will consider dropping at least one of them instead of reconfiguring them for the upcoming technology in 2027.

    GM dropped the older Chevy Bolt when it shifted to newer EV tech and is about to reintroduce it with the current EV tech that they are using. So maybe Ford will eventually reintroduce a full size truck with their upcoming new tech..

    Drawings of what is being imagined at the link.



    Ford's 'Skunkworks' Affordable Truck, Compact Crossover EVs: Everything We Know

    Ford's low-cost EVs are meant to battle efforts from China and Tesla. Here's what we think we know so far.

    Ford's EV program isn’t going as planned. Crosstown rival General Motors has raced ahead to become America's second best-selling EV brand behind Tesla. And Ford's two main consumer offerings, the F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E are strong products, but they’re not delivering profits the way Ford wants yet and they're aging.

    Worse, Ford CEO Jim Farley is sounding the alarm about China's lead in the EV race and what could happen if—or perhaps when—that country's affordable electric options come stateside.

    Now, Ford needs new EVs developed from the ground up, designed to challenge competitors—all by being more affordable. During its second quarter earnings call, Farley said that Ford will reveal more details about its future EVs on August 11. The new platform will be a "Model T moment" for the brand, Farley said, hinting at EVs hitting the reset button at the company as competition grows.

    The reveal was somewhat anticlimactic, with the automaker focusing more on its revolutionary new manufacturing processes, which allow it to built an EV from just three big parts. These gigacastings travel along separate assembly lines and are joined together right before the end of the building process.

    All of this is enabled by a new platform developed by a small "skunkworks" team, dubbed the Universal EV Platform. The first model to use this new architecture will be a mid-size pickup truck that's will offer more interior space than a Toyota RAV4, according to Ford CEO Jim Farley. That's without the truck bed and front trunk. A second model, which is believed to be a compact crossover, will follow.

    The skunkworks team was formed sometime in 2021 and includes a bevy of hired talent from EV brands like Tesla, Rivian and Lucid.

    Ford has been pretty tight-lipped about the technical specifics of its EV project, but we know it will be rear-wheel drive and "super fun to drive," per Ford's CEO. The shape of the vehicle will also have "a new silhouette," which is a little cryptic, but at the end of the day, it could just mean that it will be more like a car and less like an F-150. Size-wise, we expect the upcoming electric pickup to be similar to the Maverick.

    Separately, the company has also said that it was developing a next-generation electric truck codenamed "Project T3," but that has been delayed.

    What Do We Know About Ford's Affordable EV Program?
    Unlike Ford’s previous efforts, we do know that Ford is intentionally not going all out on big batteries for this platform. Farley thinks that Ford’s EV future is based on volume and low costs, and one way it plans to keep costs down and prices cheap is by restricting battery sizes. Bigger batteries mean higher prices because that's the most expensive part of an EV.

    EV buyers are price sensitive and the diminishing returns of range on large batteries and the elevated costs associated with them aren’t getting buyers behind the wheel like the brand thought.

    The platform that will underpin Ford’s future EVs is small, with only about 100 people, many of whom are made up of talent from various EV startups. Farley says the team is ruthlessly focused on cost and efficiency. It views Tesla and Chinese EVs as the “ultimate competition.” He also dropped a bombshell last year, revealing on the Fully Charged Show podcast that he was driving a Xiaomi SU7 sedan imported from China.

    We know that unlike the Mach-E and Lightning, which are adapted from gas car platforms, the new truck will be totally built from the ground up; it also won't be Volkswagen's MEB platform used to make the European Explorer and Capri, which is pictured above.

    What Will The Ford Affordable EV Look Like?
    That’s something we won’t know. Ford’s EV lineup could follow a Mach-E-like theme. It could also be styled to be more in line with Ford’s European EVs, like the new Capri or Explorer EV. It could take on many forms, considering it’s a new platform that will underpin Ford’s future EVs.

    During the so-called "Model T moment," we got a very brief glimpse of what we believe is the front fascia of Ford's new $30,000 mid-size truck. There is no visible grille, but that's to be expected for an EV, which doesn't need a big radiator up front to cool the engine.

    Again, we know the EV—really, an EV platform—will take several body styles, including a small crossover and a mid-size pickup truck.

    Recently, Farley explained that Ford’s low-cost EVs will focus on “work and adventure” and that the platform will be “leveraged among many top hats,” so we can expect a whole slew of products for multiple types of customers.

    There is also talk of an EV focused on rideshare customers; perhaps Ford is developing something similar to the BYD D1 or Kia Niro Plus.

    What About Performance, Charging And Range?
    Ford has said little about the range goals of its low-cost EVs. But once again, it’s adamant that none of them will have super-sized batteries. Don’t expect the 200+ kWh battery or nearly 1,000 horsepower setup we’ve seen in GM’s Ultium platform trucks like the GMC Hummer EV.

    The blue oval automaker said it’s aiming for a battery capacity that’s approximately 15% smaller than that of the Chinese-made BYD Atto electric crossover. The Atto 3 has 60.5 kWh of usable energy, so the American company’s new pickup is expected to have roughly 51 kWh of usable energy.

    InsideEVs visited the automaker's $3 billion BlueOval Battery Park Michigan, where it will start manufacturing low-cost lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries from 2026 onwards, licensing the technology from China's CATL. The plant is expected to generation 1,700 manufacturing jobs and make about 20 gigawatt-hours of LFP batteries annually, enough to power about 250,000 EVs.

    Ford’s EVs will likely have a NACS port integrated natively and be able to access Tesla Superchargers on release.

    When Will Ford's Affordable EVs Go On Sale?
    Ford hasn’t offered an exact date of sale for its new EV projects, but the automaker said it's due to launch sometime in 2027 and it will "cater to customers who want more for their money—more range, more utility, more useability."

    The Dearborn automaker confirmed that the new family of affordable EVs will be built at its Louisville Assembly Plant, which is getting a $2 billion upgrade.

    When Will Ford's Affordable EVs Go On Sale?
    Ford hasn’t offered an exact date of sale for its new EV projects, but the automaker said it's due to launch sometime in 2027 and it will "cater to customers who want more for their money—more range, more utility, more useability."




     
  2. Mango

    Mango Member

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    The Dearborn automaker confirmed that the new family of affordable EVs will be built at its Louisville Assembly Plant, which is getting a $2 billion upgrade.

    Farley said on Ford’s Q2 2024 earnings call that pricing will be under $30,000 for the cheapest products on the platform, but this isn't necessarily the price point for the mid-size EV truck. With Trump's tariffs, that price target will be hard to achieve.

    If so, the crossover should directly rival new, more affordable offerings like the 2026 Chevrolet Bolt EUV, the Jeep Renegade, the Kia EV3, and possibly Tesla's smaller and cheaper new model—and, of course, whatever comes our way out of China.

    A truly affordable electric truck doesn’t exist in the U.S. The Tesla Cybertruck, Rivian R1T, and Chevy Silverado EV all start above $60,000, while the Ford F-150 Lightning opens at $55,000. Ford may see an opening to undercut them all with a cheaper model—a move that could give it a serious edge if it manages to deliver.

    And that will end up being its real test.
     
  3. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    The "real test" is whether they repeat the past by selling these future EVs for ~half of what they cost to manufacture.

    Building them from a new, ground-up EV platform is essential. That would give Ford legitimacy in the EV market. The second part is ramping production high enough so unit costs plummet. Notice there is no mention of a production goal. LFP batteries are a no-brainer. Smaller batteries are a smart idea IMO, but needless "range-anxiety" still permeates the mind of so many clueless people.

    I really do wish Ford the best but it's hard to take them seriously on EVs.
     

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