Why would the definition of insanity apply here? He doesn't even have a full season under his belt. Brunson didnt become a superstar until into his 4th year. You could look at Curry or Kyrie but they were given free reign that Reed doesn't have. When Reed *does* get free reign then he lights it up. But that doesnt mean anything. He needs to learn to win and to do the right things on both sides of the ball. The impatience with him is straight up *weird* to me. Just relax and let him figure stuff out before saying what he can or cant do. He's had absolutely no time at all so far. This is the first real development hes gotten.
Horrific lol Yeah its so bad being the last option and just having to shoot open 3s while your teammates draw the defense instead of being the focus of the entire defense and forced to carry the team on your back. I remember Reed got that treatment in March Madness it wasnt so great for him either.
He lights it up against bad teams. Ime would give him free reign if he was lighting it up against everyone. Why do you guys always act like Ime is holding back Reed's greatness? You think Ime doesnt want Reed to blow up?
Can’t comment on ncaa i think college basketball is unwatchable trash, had never heard of reed till the draft stuff.
I like the way you're thinking about it. I don't have any data to support this although I'll try and find it tomorrow to see if I can validate the premise but.... Holiday is conditioned to fire away b/c his role is carved out for 3-4-5 minute spurts - $hit or get off the pot. However, when FVV was hurt last year and Holiday got significant playing time I was pleasantly surprised at the evolution of his play-style. He was more of a floor-general out there than a locked and loaded microwave off the bench. Over the long-haul he'll clearly be below league avg offensively and his size and habit of fouling will always test him on D, but I think that's enough. We just can't afford a significant net negative. I think we agree on a few things. The current version of Reed is not good enough to play 20+ mins a night for a Championship team. If we get Schroder level play 30 mins/night I really like this team's chances to win a title.
Reed doesn't have vertical, horizontal, diagonal or any other direction of athleticism. It probably takes Reed 4 steps to cover the distance of one Jalen or Amen sidestep or stepback because they actually are athletic. Reed's been ****, stop propping him up, you're supposed to be the efficiency/metrics guy, it's weird. I don't hate Reed, i just don't see anything like a starter. I voted yes in the "are you happy we drafted him" thread because he was supposed to be this lethal generational shooter. It's a beautiful shot that goes in less than Jalen's ugly one. He stays running around like a headless chicken on D, he can't run fast or jump high. Pray tell, what the **** are you smoking where you're hallucinating enough talent to defend him this hard Mr Metrics?
And that is what this is about in the end. We're seeing if he's worth investing in. You want to make sure you're not trading away Steve Nash after all or Julius Randle or Brunson or whoever (and yes I know Brunson and Randle showed potential before going to their 2nd teams, just saying). So he'll have a lot of chances to show out. I don't really expect him to show out against teams like OKC...but when we are up against the Wizards and Nets, I want to see those flashes of "Oh, there he is." Just didn't see it last night against D-Lo of all players. I think he's going to be a good back up guard in the future, right now that looks like his ceiling but I think we do need to see more...but the reality of the situation is we have Durant here to win in the next 2 years.... So....I'm looking at teams that might be out of it by the deadline. I'm looking CJ McCollum, Jrue Holiday, hell maybe even Zach Lavine and all of these guys would take a 3rd team...but even if its just CJ, who is definitely a little washed...I'm easily taking CJ for a playoff run over Reed. CJ can't play much defense either but at least I know he's a vet that's been in Western Playoff Battles. And I LIKE the potential of Reed...but with Durant, that window is right now. If the Pacers for instance are shopping TJ McConnel I hop on that. I like Reed, I think he has the potential because of his shot. I think if he learns to keep his dribble going he's going to take a big step, but I don't know if we have the time to wait another season for the possibility of that, but I guess we'll see as the season moves on. No reason for the Rockets to be impatient now.
I’m just not a believer in giving up on someone you think has talent after such a tiny sample. I’ve never really “defended” him or said he’s been good. He’s a small, young guard. Those guys are good at his age once in a generation. I didn’t care about jalen’s efficiency issues till year 3, and didn’t give up on him till he had played about 7300 minutes. Reed is still under 800 minutes. You think he will suck, that’s totally fine. I’ve also argued when people say utter nonsense like “castle is good” when he was absolute trash last year.
Reed will never be Schroder though because Schroder has elite length and good size for the pg position. This allows him to make all sorts of plays Reed cant do.
He won ROY so he must have done something other than just be trash. Reed is the one that was absolute trash and he had the stats that show it.
I think it is clear that Holiday is better than Reed right now. Udoka playing Holiday over Reed in the final seconds said it all. Honestly I don’t see anything special from Reed. He almost singlehandedly blew the Rockets lead in the 4th quarter yesterday. Rockets need to own up to their mistake and play Holiday until Reed earns his minutes.
He won ROY because people only look at counting stats. Everyone i listen to who’s basketball opinion i care about said he had no business being top 3. He was also on a trash tanking team, Reed would have played a ton of minutes for the spurs also and castle would have sat on the bench all year as a rocket.
They are going to be a lot of games where Holiday might end up being a better option than Reed. I think maximizing his athletic abilities, turning him into the type of point Guard we want and improving. His defensive fundamentals is going to be a process that takes at least another year or two. I have seen him make some plays where he is processing the pass very fast. The shooting is already trending up. The things that he needs to learn might take a while, but I actually still think he is going to be a very special player.
IME knows way more ball than either of us. I have to believe he sees something there (or pre trade deadline was Reed's proof of concept to see if he could run the show in the playoffs?). The counterpoints to yours are supposed to be elite shot making, excellent awareness, anticipation, and quick hands driving above avg perimeter defense. I'm sure he must show some of that at practice. IME knows this is a title level team. If he's trotting Reed out there after the trade deadline I can only conclude he thinks Reed will deliver. I sure hope so. Kid needs to stop pissing off his fans though. Damn hard to root for him after the way he played in the 4th. That's nearly the 2nd game he's cost us this year. And we've only played 6. Enough.
If we hadn’t picked up Okogie in the off-season, we would have had to start either Reed or Holiday who are not even adequate backup guards for a championship level team. You guys are arguing about who is the sh*ttier guard Holiday or Reed. The fact of the matter is FVV was a sh*tty pg last year with some of the league worst TS% and averaged less than 6 assists a game as the “floor general”. Reed, FVV, and Holiday are all too short to be starting PG’s in today’s NBA. None of them create North/South gravity and have the ability to effectively score in the lane or even put up good assist numbers. None of them is ever double teamed. The guard most often double teamed on last year’s team was Jalen who should give you a clue on how bad FVV and Holiday were, given they would rather double team a horribly inefficient guard like Jalen than bother with Fred or Holiday. Many of us wanted Jalen insurance last year and Stone didn’t deliver. This year we needed Reed insurance and again he didn’t deliver. I’m a big Stone fan and think he has set us up for a long run, but he needs to address the horrible depth we have at guard. We don’t need a superstar PG, we just need another decent SG/Combo guard that can hit 35+% from 3 and play defense as good as Okogie or a little better to be a solid contender. Neither Reed or Hoiday are going to cut it for sure this year and probably never, because they are too short and not really athletic enough. I see no evidence of Reed having some kind of top level bbiq and think it is just another way of saying he must be smart because he is white. If Reed is going to make it at all in the league it will be because of his one elite skill which is shooting 3’s. He can make a living as a zone buster off the bench like Kyle Korver.
Dude I think it's a lot worse than that IMO. He keeps making the same mistakes. I've listed then in numerous posts over the past week...don't want to do that again. Here's a factual way to move beyond subjectivity and sample size. From game 1 last year, even the biggest supporters (of which I was one at the time) said he needs to shoot more or not hesitate on open looks. Last night after the game I came in fuming at Reed's play and was met with people once again talking about Reed passing up open shots. We're 2 Summer leagues + a year in to his career. It's disappointing that you can say the exact same thing as game 1.
The thing is they gave jalen all the chances 4 years.10000 minutes only for Jalen to come up with 35% 3fg% While reed just after less than 1000 minutes is already averaging 40%
