Is it though? Because what happens to that when Pace is added, does it give you efficiencies when teams speed up the game are they the same, what if teams slow it down? Right now it is an average. DD
Pace is just the no of possessions in a game, it can help or hurt your team's offensive rating. High pace means teams have less time to set up the defense and you get more attempts at the basket. However it also means players get tired quickly because everyone is running up and down the court. There is also bigger risk of injury cuz everyone is moving quicker so stronger collisions, stress on body etc Generally if you have a young team faster pace is preferred as young guys have a lot of energy and arent skilled enough to score consistently vs set defenses. OTH if you have a vet team a slower pace is preferred cuz you dont wanna tire out your vets and since they are vets they execute plays better anyway. For the Rox high pace is prob preferred as we have athletes like Amen, Tari and Okogie who can get up and run and even Sengun and KD can keep up with the fast pace. We are also the best rebounding team so getting both teams to chuck shots is preferred cuz we get all the rebs.
OffRtg takes away pace. It is points per possession. It doesn't matter how many possessions you have in a game. Your opponents have exactly the same number of possessions you have. So the goal is you score more points per possession than your opponent. That's the NetRtg, OffRtg - DefRtg. Rtg takes away pace and takes away HOW. It only tells you HOW MUCH, which is the ultimate goal of the game. BTW, this is why "pace" doesn't always tell you how fast a team plays because it is combined with how fast your opponents play.
Offensive rating does not factor in pace. It is simply points scored per possession x 100. So, like he said, it is what matters. Rockets are near the bottom in pace (28th) but it's working just fine for them. This probably won't change much anytime soon since their mojo right now is meat and potatoes lineups. If you look at the teams currently with the highest offensive ratings, the ones at the top are slower than average. The bottom line is a faster pace does not necessarily improve offensive efficiency. That fact won't compute well for some people here. Only way they make a serious jump in pace is to increase their low number of TOs generated on defense. Hard to do playing a lot of zone.
Offensive rating is offensive rating, but it is valid to break out where the offensive rating is coming from, and whether those advantages tend to sustain in the playoffs. We're 1st in overall offensive rating, and 18th in halfcourt pts/play. This means offensive rebounding is the difference between us being 18th and 1st. This is while shooting 39% from 3 and with a 33.6 FT rate as a team, neither of which will hold up. Offensive rebounding is an incredible advantage - but people should be aware of the degree to which that is driving our ORtg, because ORB% differentials always compress in the playoffs. We are still not good at the kind of halfcourt offensive execution that replicates in playoff basketball.
I agree with this 100% and I think it’s spot on and well written. It should still represent an advantage in the playoffs and I do think that this group of players is much more equipped to have half court success as we go throughout the season and as we get into the playoffs. Even Freddie could come back before that point or be traded for an upgrade.
Great post. The FTA advantage is especially ridiculous and won't even maintain much longer during the regular season. After all, Rockets aren't the Lakers. They can ride the offensive rebounding advantage for a while and hopefully cohesion and chemistry will improve to take up the slack. I bet this offense looks a lot different 30-40 games from now.
No one is arguing whether they do or don't have the #1 offense or what we're in need of. I'm just stating their offense rating was specifically jacked up by playing Brooklyn and Toronto. If anything, I'm saying let's hold off before we decide how their offense is. They may very well be a top-5 offense, but if you've played 4 games and 2 of them are against horrible teams, I'm not sure what you're going to get out of it. And I never said anything about the Nets getting boosted by anything. Maybe you're misunderstanding. Define "point differential". If it's what I think you mean, it's not necessarily meaningful.
Yep. Net Rating is probably the best teamwide with a large sample and no roster changes for offense and defense. Short term, Net Rating destroys winning percentage on future performance, though wins banked matter a lot.
That sounds like an average margin of victory stat. Sounds like it would get skewed by blowouts and not necessarily indicate a better team. A team can win by 20, lose by 5 and lose by 6 Their average margin of victory would be +3 and their record would be 1-2. Another team could win by 6, win by 5, and lose by 8. Their average margin of victory would be +1, but their record would be 2-1. In the short term it seems like it would be flawed to determine a better team - I don't know about long term, but it may be better.
This is actually contrary to what happens a lot of the time. Many times teams with a slower pace have higher offensive ratings. The Rockets have the highest Off Rtg currently, but 3rd slowest pace. San Antonio has a slow pace but a relatively high off rating this year. Last year the Celtics had the 2nd slowest pace, but the 2nd highest offensive rating. The Knicks last year also had one of the slowest paces but highest off rtgs from what I recall. This makes me want to question what the correlation between pace and off rating may be.
A lot of people think pace is just running down the court quickly and having guys move around on offense instead of just a measure of possessions per game.
I think that's just one factor. If you look at how pace/pace factor is calculated, it's based on the definition of what a "possession" is. Running up and down the court quickly does affect the calculation since it can cause more possessions per 48 minutes. But there are other things that are more subtle. For example, good offensive rebounding will cause your pace to be slower since, by definition, you didn't gain another possession, so your existing possession is lengthened. It's a weird thing that you did something good in gaining that offensive rebound, but it slowed your pace (or its calculation was skewed downward) thanks to the fact it kept that possession running longer. From the 30,000-foot view some may say "man, that team plays slow", when in reality you need to look further into it as to why their pace may be low. It'd be a fun exercise to see how many teams are considered "fast break" teams but also maybe are good offensive rebounding teams, thereby having possibly unexpectedly lower pace factor. I think that's what he meant by saying people just think pace is just how fast you run up and down the court... but I could be wrong.
Wait, what? Now you're gonna have to explain DD math, where Avg points scored vs Avg points allowed per game = Point Differential https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/...-offensive-rating.327552/page-5#post-15907334
I didnt consider offensive rebounds "slowing" the pace. I guess it means for the Rockets that slow pace is misleading because in reality each offensive reb should be treated as a new possession but in pace calculations it is treated as part of the original possession. Rox are actually a high pace team that looks like a low paced team because of all the offensive possessions they generate. This is also why their ORTG is high because if they miss 3 times but get 3 rebs and make the bucket on the 4rth attempt it just counts as 1/1 for the Orating calculations. I think regardless what the official pace is Rox should focus on getting as close to Suns "7 secs or less" offense as possible. The more attempts both teams have the more misses, and the more misses the more possessions Rox have as they are the rebound king.
And if a team gave up a lot of fast break on defense, their pace would be higher. But if they forced the opponents to use up a lot of their shot clock, their pace would be lower. And if you have a lot of turnovers, your pace will likely be up. Those things don't have anything with running fast up the court. I think "pace" is a bit of a misnomer. What people really want to know is the average offensive possession time. But that still doesn't get rid of the offensive rebounding and turnovers noise.
