Amen is going to be fine. He is adjusting to a new role. Even though it was the Nets he had 8 assists and 0 turnovers. Each game he will get more confident. The intention was never for him to be a pure pg. He will be one of 2 main initiators on this team. He will start hitting those shots in the lane that he pretty much gets at will. Right now he is drinking from a fire hose, but he is a basketball savant and will get his confidence over the next 10-20 games. When Sengun is initiating the offense, Amen finds his moments as a cutter and eventually a decent corner spot up shooter. It is not nearly as black and white as all the “we need a pg” guys are making it out to be. Starting Okogie was just what the doctor ordered. If Okogie can continue to hit 3’s at a decent clip, we won’t be making a trade for a guard. What happened in the Nets game is what was envisioned by Ime and Stone before FVV went down, with FVV playing Okogie’s role and Sheppard coming off the bench to grow into a solid backup PG. It was never going to be hit a switch and everything work with this new offense. Patience is not something this board exudes. Ime also is having growing pains. It will require patience on his part and a greater willingness to adjust rotations on the fly. It was obvious to most knowledgeable basketball fans that the two big lineup was going to cause problems especially on the defensive side of the ball. It is the reason we started out the year playing that pitiful zone with Sengun, Durant, and Jabari away from their natural positions. People need to look at both sides of the equation. If Okogie is not the answer, the sweet spot for a trade is for a combo guard that can hit 3’s and play defense, the same as FVV without the incessant dribbling.
They decided to take Amen out of a role where he'd be a star caliber player and threw him into a role where he'd be just serviceable. Crazy work.
I think the other unfortunate part is that this team didnt rebuilt in the most organic of ways (like what the Spurs have done with Wemby). The young guys have never been the 1A option and haven't had the leisure (outside of Jalen I guess) to just learn on the fly and learn through their mistakes. They've always deferred to either FVV or now Durant. So they're usually doing what's best for wins and not for personal growth. There's a reason the old adage goes "you cant be on two timelines". Amen and Reed will get there. As will Jabari. But like I said in the game thread, this team has a whole lot of "sometimes you sometimes me" thing going on still.
Amen has only had a starting role for half a year. It’s kind of like in baseball when you have a really good hitting catcher that you move to DH. His value goes way down, because good hitting catchers are valuable, good hitting DH’s are a dime a dozen. Amen becoming a stud with the ball in his hand is much more valuable than him being a stud wing which the league and the Rockets are already flush with. Ime and Stone are taking a gamble, because they see Magic Johnson potential in Amen, not Shawn Marion potential. It is worth the gamble. If Amen can’t make it happen as the lead guard, he still has another decade or two to make the switch back to wing. He and Sengun will be initiating this offense all year. Get used to it.
Okay, so is Amen being mediocre to bad pretending to be a PG more valuable than being all NBA as a forward? I know you are really committed to the idea of Amen continuing to pretend he's a PG, but given that it takes away everything he's actually good at, at some point don't you have to reconsider?
Amen is raw - both as a PG and as a forward. As a forward you can hide him better and he will excell with his defense, offensive rebounding and slashing. As a PG he needs to get better at everything and will look worse, especially early on. But he has the vision to play PG and the quickness to defend PGs. His upside here is way higher, because he would instantly be a matchup nightmare for other teams. I am not convinved either way. Letting him sit at SF will be a guaranteed success in the short and the long term. Developing him as a PG could turn him into a top 10 player in the league, but it will be worse for quite some time and the chance of this happening is still not that big. I am fine with playing around with it until the trade deadline and then reevaluate.
Curious to get your thoughts: if Amen puts up around 16-7-6 this season with great defense, should we lock him up with the rookie max, or push for a more team friendly deal like Sengun’s?
There is no way.......no way.....Amen gets traded. Unless the player acquired has the last name of Doncic or Gilgeous-Alexander. In other words............no way.
You are very invested in Reed being a PG and why you can’t see the forest for the trees. I have said multiple times that Amen is not a traditional PG and that the idea that you have to have a traditional Pg in this era of the NBA is passé. He is going to be great with the ball in his hands and initiating the offense. On this team, he will share that duty with Sengun and sometimes other players. Boston won a championship without a traditional PG. So did OKC, Lakers are playing Doncic at PG. As Durant has stated, the days of dimunitve Pg’s is long gone. There may be an outlier here and there, but by and large guards around the league are just rebranded wings. Moving him to forward benches Jabari which we saw last year adversely effected our defense and outside shooting. Amen struggled mightily the first two games, but you could still see glimpses of how easily he can get in the lane and either score, go to the line (7 for 7 in the first game), or pass out (15 expected assists in the first game). He was also getting into that lane with a two big lineup of slow footed centers. Having an actual guard on the court with him (like Okogie or Reed) opens up the lane even more for him and it showed against the Nets with 8 assists and 0 turnovers in 25 minutes. His shot is not dropping either outside or inside. I believe that will change. We are going to find out if he can excel in this role if Ime has patience. Again injury may have forced Ime’s hand for the future good of the team.
Serious question - is there any part of you that knows this is an absurdly stupid opinion, or are you that disconnected from reality?
Here’s what I don’t understand about people who doubt Amen as a prospect - let’s say he never reaches his offensive potential. He’ll still be fighting with Wemby for DPOY honors for the next decade. So reverse the situation - let’s say we had a prospect who likely will be among the two or three best offensive players in the NBA, but you had some concerns about his defensive game. Mind you, his defense isn’t bad, and is arguably really good, you just think there might be another level for him to reach. Would you have any doubts about that prospect?
Which part is stupid? That we should trade him or that he can bring value back right now? You gotta look at both parts. we can get a decent return for Amen right now, which is why we should trade him. If we can get an All-Star like Garland for example, you wouldn’t trade Amen freaking Thompson? And that’s not so far-fetched, by any means. Cleveland has redundancy in small guards, but lack athletic wings with size. Amen has some qualities, but like, he’s 0 for the season from distance, his defense is not all that great, gets cooked quite often, and he cannot run an offense. So is that a top player in this league? He’s got value, but his stock is overvalued, i.e we should be sellers here.
It seems like 90% of the comments but just like in other areas it’s not 90% of the people it’s like 5 guys that don’t know when to stop.
Would I trade Amen for Garland? No, God no. Anyone who would shouldn’t be allowed to talk about basketball. Edit: I just noticed you “his defense isn’t great” comment. Troll confirmed.
Amen can do everything he does on the court as a wing as he does as a PG. The only difference is does he play better with more skilled players or less skilled players. As such, the DH vs catcher argument really isn't a good comparison. Let's say you think Amen is a SS. Would you bench Pena just to play Amen at SS? Or would you move Pena or Amen to 2B or CF because the defense would obviously be better with more skilled players? You seem so focused on Amen being the nominal PG that you would rather Amen play with worse players rather than a PG share the court with Amen.
Amen Thompson is the one bright spot from the rebuild - the one guy any team would want. Green, Smith--- Sheppard... even Tari all are just okay. Without Thomspon and Sengun the Rockets would be SOL. Having said that, I think the Spurs pass the Rockets up this year and join OKC at the teams that are at the top of the West. Sengun and Thompson are a good base, but not like those other teams.
Not as good of an analogy as my Diaz to DH comparison. I don’t really care if you call Amen a PG or SF as long as he has the ball in his hands more than any other player on the Rockets other than Sengun. Amen’s potential as the lead guard is much greater than his potential at the dunker spot. Lead guard, point guard, point forward whatever you want to call it is by far the greater need for this roster than dunker. If Amen can become what I think he can (Magic Johnson like) it is much more valuable than becoming a Shawn Marion type. It is the difference between a hall of famer and a couple of all-star appearances. Remember he has only been a starter for 1/2 a year and only the starting PG for a handful of games last year and 3 this year. Almost everyone acknowledges that he is a basketball maniac, so I sure wouldn’t bet against him being able to make the transition.
