ClutchFans Game Thread: Pistons @ Rockets 10/24/2025

Reed did *way* better last night than against the Thunder. He was able to funnel Cade effectively to the sideline or to another defender forcing the ball out of his hands. Jabari looked awful. KD frankly looks bad on that end as well. He gives up on plays *a lot*. This is honestly my biggest concern so far this season. Not Reed or Amen or Jabari or Tari. Its KD on defense. The aforementioned will get better or traded. But KD? He's not changing.

 

A lot of that had to do with them being hacked with no whistle, but certainly not all of it. It's definitely something that has to improve.

 

as the poet said in a different thread, we must overcome diversity

 

To be fair, lots of people here use defensive adv stats to prove something one way or another.

 

Then why did you bother saying this, after the OKC game?

btw, DRtg is two different metrics at nba and bbref, not one. Just bc they are called the same, obviously they are calculated widely differently. Last yr, bbref had Reed as 5th best drtg for the season, nba had him at 10th. lulz

One is based on pbp, the other solely on boxscore stats.

 

The point was that the narrative was that the Thunder were going at Reed Sheppard and scoring at will, I was pointing out that when Reed Sheppard was on the court, the Thunder didn't gain any ground on the Rockets. I wasn't saying Reed Sheppard played good defense against OKC, he didn't...but that's not how that metric would be properly used anyway. It can be used exactly as I used it.

Also, attacking any one metric doesn't change anything I said. ANY tiny sample is potentially worthless and any one metric is potentially worthless. A single game, single metric analysis is almost always worthless.

Of course this all depends on what you are trying to use them for. If you use plus minus in the way I did, it merely disproved one narrative. It says nothing about the individual quality of any of the guys on the court at the time....it just shows that the Thunder "picking on" Sheppard didn't gain them any ground overall.

When you are trying to make player specific arguments, you need a larger sample and you need to see if different metrics tend to agree or if one is merely an outlier. If they tend to agree, you can make an argument with a reasonable degree of confidence.

 

It's disturbing to see obvious flaws so early in the season when aspirations are very high, but all isn't lost. They will trade for a guard.

 

One of the weaknesses of a zone defense is it makes clearing the defensive glass harder. Instead of the defender putting a body on their man, there are open lanes for offensive players to rebound. I also think playing part-time zone defense can make players lazy, too stationary and less physical.

Regarding overall hustle and physicality, we'll see if it improves. DB is gone, DFS hasn't played yet and Tari is in the Twilight Zone. Maybe a bigger role for Okogie?

 

I'm just mad that all the things dopes like us saw as worst case scenario in the off season are coming true.

1. Less on ball playmaking wo Jalen and now Fred
2. Packed lanes
3. Lack of guys who can guard down credibly, fewer options, more exploits
4. Amen unable to create havoc due to huge burden placed on him

All foreseeable.

 

1:43 Duncan Robinson fouled Jabari
:06 Amen should not have been awarded a take foul on Cade (“fails to make contact”)

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022500093

 

Reed Sheppard is a defensive liability who doesn’t currently provide enough offensively to overcome it. Tari Eason’s problem is he is in his feelings about his contract negotiations with the Rockets’ front office. He has no business playing this bad, and it will only weaken the contract offers he gets next summer.

 

I know these players aren’t that dumb in their understanding of value in a contract year. We haven’t even advanced out the first round. I’d trade Tari and picks for a veteran point

 

Well… going 4-0 in preseason was a warning sign for me that we would start off like this. Positive thing is we will start winning again.

 

Tari may be traded for a guard sooner than later

 

Rockets should be reaching out about Quentin Grimes

 

Sengun played hot trash last game.

5/18, 3 turnovers, get blocked 5 times.

If he could play slightly good, we would beat the Pistons.

 

Imagine the Virus in Vince Gilligan's Pluribus hitting Clutchfans, and you are the only Contrarian who can get past it.

 

KD is just old lol.....he came here and expected young guys to cover for him on Defense.....look what he found!

 

Man I have seen such wildly different takes on KD's defense these days.

My view after having watched him these couple of games: He can still be effective as a defensive player when he puts in the effort, and has some good plays, but he takes a lot of plays "off", like probably the majority of them. Not in the sense that he's doing absolutely nothing, he's just not really giving any extra effort beyond the bare minimum to not be a total liability. Basically relying on everyone else to make defensive plays for him, not trying super hard to stay in front of his man, that sort of thing.

I think we can probably still have a good defense with him playing that way. He is still a 7 footer with a huge wingspan and his basic ability to contest shots and intimidate people around the rim is never going to go away. But we do need everyone else to be at the top of their game, and we badly need DFS to come back and be at least a reasonable approximation of what we were getting from Dillon last season.

 

Yeah its actually incredibly concerning. People who think KD is a good defender are on drugs. Can he be? Sure. Is he one? No. Sengun and Jabari are better defenders. Through 2 games he has not been sharp at all on either side of the ball. Spare me those 37 pts vs the Pistons. He hasnt done a good job of getting free (and Reed gets to take the blame for that) a lot and like you said, he mails it in a lot on defense.

We need to go all in on developing the youth. We do *not* need to trade for a PG or anything of the sort to appease *this* version of Kevin Durant. Keep running Reed and Amen because *this* KD is the type of player that can put you over the top but he is a specialist. No longer an integral cog or engine. And he hasnt been good enough through 2 games but luckily we arent Phoenix who was completely devoid of talent outside of KD and Book.